downsouth v CL/Cohens - another 3 incorrect N1 claims! Barclaycard ? Egg !!

[downsouth]

Well hellooo again, it's been 18 months since I was last on this site, having successfully claimed thousands back in reclaimed charges, made my donation and carried on with running a struggling business...

 

 

... Suddenly get 3 N1 Claim forms outta the blue relating to, apparantly, Barclaycard debts, to which I definately owe nowt.

 

I suspect, like other threads posted in the last day or two, these claims are part of Lewis's bulk buy of old Egg debts, and they've made an administrative error on, probably hundreds of, claim forms.

 

I have all the Egg documentation at work; from what I remember they stopped all recovery action after I complained 2 years ago about their then DCA and failure to provide CCA documentation. I'll refamiliarise myself with this tomorrow.

 

Anyhoo, in the meantime, dealing with the claims, I'll be following the other current threads on this subject and aim tomorrow to:

a) acknowledge on line

b) send CPR31 letters per 42man's excellent template.

 

I'll keep this thread updated as I progress.

 

ta ta

downsouth

Edited December 10, 2008 by downsouth
ETA Sig!

[creditcardmug]

Send CCA requests to C L Finance also, send CPR Requests to Cohens, dont sign any letters just type your name.

 

C L will reply swiftly to the CPRs with a flat refusal to comply.

 

Lewis will have no further involvement now...all will be thro Cohens.

[downsouth]

Thanks ccm.

 

Well, looks like Cohens have spotted their mistake and sent an amended particulars of claim for one of their claims, changing Barclays to Egg.

 

BUT they've made a new error, putting a slightly different agreement reference number!

 

Silly...

[creditcardmug]

Strange i thought they would have seek leave of the court at least to be allowed to do that, and that you wold have to be consulted:confused:

[downsouth]

Their accompanying letter states:

 

' In order to correct this please find enclosed by way of service upon you an amended particulars of claim in accordance with Part 17.1 of the Civil Procedure Rules. '

 

Good job they're well acquainted with the CPR then

[pookeymonkey]

Hi DS

 

I have got one of these claims as well but have yet to recieve any ammendment letter.

 

I have just found this on the justice.gov.uk website -

 

Amendments to statements of case

 

17.1

 

(1) A party may amend his statement of case at any time before it has been served on any other party.

 

(2) If his statement of case has been served, a party may amend it only –

(a) with the written consent of all the other parties; or

 

(b) with the permission of the court.

 

 

(3) If a statement of case has been served, an application to amend it by removing, adding or substituting a party must be made in accordance with rule 19.4.

 

 

 

 

The date of service is taken as 5 days from the issue date on the front of the claim form. I don't know if this still applies if you acknowledge service online (which I did the day I recieved the court claim).

 

Have you acknowledged the claim online? If not they may be trying to get in before the 5 days as in 17.1 (1)

If not it seems very quick to have been given permission by the court to ammend the statement of case.

 

Good luck

 

Pookey

[upto the eyeballs]

subbing!!!

[downsouth]

Well the claim form for all 3 claims had been served on me physically (arrived in the post the previous day).

 

I'm going to acknowledge on line all 3 claims today, and wait and see if/when the other amendments arrive. Hopefully, they'll put incorrect agreement numbers on all of them!

 

With regards to my opening post on this, I have found the previous correspondence from the previous DCA, good ol' Fredrickson Intl who failed to provide information after CCA requests, and put the account 'on hold' whilst they awaited all the info from Egg. Which never arrived. That was nearly 2 years ago.

 

So I'm confident CLF haven't got the right records either so am proceeding with CCA requests to C L Finance, as well as the CPR 31 letter to Cohens (unsigned of course)

 

When it gets to putting my defence together it will be lengthy for each of these claims. I suspect it will be a combination of ineffective agreements, incorrect notices of assignment (from the CPR 31 request, if they actually provide anything at all which I doubt), and lack of statements which will of course include many unlawful charges which, because of the lack of statements, I haven't been able to reclaim.

 

I'm getting my teeth stuck right into these 3 claims: any help along the way greatfully received!

 

ds

 

(Edited to reformat)

Edited December 12, 2008 by downsouth

[pookeymonkey]

My CCA request is about 15 months overdue and has been through Fredricksons as well.

 

I dont see CL having any paperwork, I think they are just going for bully boy tactics (did you get the letter from Lewis dated 24/11/08 demanding payment by 01/12/08?).

 

Don't forget to mention failure of Cohens to comply with CPR16 (I think, I will check and post later) in your defence. This states that in any case relying on a written agreement, a copy of the agreement should be served with the court claim.

 

Pookey

[downsouth]

Yes Pookey, I got Lewis' letter giving a week to pay or else. That was the first I've heard from anyone in nearly 2 years since Fredrickson gave up. All 3 of my claims are well over £5k each by the way.

 

I expected the usual DCA bully & scare tactics from Lewis, the last thing I expected was for them to issue claims straight away, although now I know this is standard form for them. I suppose there will be a fair %age of people who will freak and just pay up (if they can).

 

I'd actually rather deal with them on this legal basis from the off, instead of all the telehassle, red letters, daft postcards and all the other nonsense other DCA's rely on.

 

I've only just started thinking about my eventual defence, if you can post up info on CPR16 mentioned above, that would be great, many thanks

 

ds

 

(Edited to reformat)

Edited December 12, 2008 by downsouth

[pookeymonkey]

Here is the info regarding CPR16 the most important part is 7.3

 

PRACTICE DIRECTION – STATEMENTS OF CASE

 

Its only a small part of the defence but helps to let Cohens know you are aware and will be expecting to see the original documents in court (if they have them!).

[42man]

Keep us posted DS....i've changed the title too as this will attract some others in similar situations and there is some good information here...

[creditcardmug]

"At anytime before it has been served", in other words NOT after it has been served?

 

2 (a) They haven't had written consent of all the parties

 

2 (b) They haven't had permission of the court (otherwise you would have been notified)

[downsouth]

"At anytime before it has been served", in other words NOT after it has been served?

 

2 (a) They haven't had written consent of all the parties

 

2 (b) They haven't had permission of the court (otherwise you would have been notified)

 

 

OK I'm up for challenging them over this. Anything to slow up the process and cause them work, and an opportunity to pull out.

 

Any suggested strategy? A letter would be nice :cheeky:

 

Edit: I am about to acknowledge the claims, should I go ahead or wait a bit?

[pookeymonkey]

Today I received a letter from Cohens with an attached paper with an amendment to the POCs, quoting CPR rule 17.1.1.

 

I am at a bit of a loss as what to do now, as the original claim form is dated 08/12/2008 I acknowledged service on 09/12/2008 and then stuck in a short defence that I have never had any dealing with Barclays/Barclaycard.

 

Cohens have dated their ammendment letter 08/12/2008, but the envelope it came in is franked with the date 11/12/2008 and I think was sent second class so it arrived today. This is really annoying as I think Cohens are trying to mislead regarding dates.

 

One good thing is that they have messed up the agreement number just like yours DS!

[downsouth]

One good thing is that they have messed up the agreement number just like yours DS!

 

They do really seem inept.

 

Good.

 

Received the 2nd of my 3 Amended particulars of claim today.

Sadly in this case they got the same ref no.

Still waiting for thoughts from the good people here on whether to challenge these. Should the court not send out amended claim forms?

 

 

Anyway, in the meantime, I have ack'd all 3 claims on MCOL

 

Issue date 8/12, that would mean defence needs to be in by 8 Jan I think.

 

Edit: seeing as you'd already put yr simple defence in Pookey, prior to receiving the so-called amended particulars, I'm now really tempted to chuck in the same defence (Barclays, who?) like you did, right now.

Edited December 13, 2008 by downsouth

[Goldlady]

Subbing - have had some fun with this lot myself.

 

They withdrew all three claims so I didn't get my day in court:p

[downsouth]

Hi GL

 

Well done you! Any advice greatfully rcvd!

 

This is the simple defence I am planning on putting in tomorrow before I receive the (3rd) and now disputed amendment particulars of claim (where they are attempting to change from Barclays to Egg):

 

 

1 The Defendant is unable to plead to the claimants statement of case as matters stand as the statement fails to comply with CPR 16

 

2 the Defendant has never had an account with the Claimant or Barclays nor has the Defendant had any financial association with the Claimant or Barclay's. The Defendant puts the Claimant to strict proof of such relationship with Barclay's Bank Plc

 

3 in view of point 2, the Defendant is unable to plead further, the defendant is embarrassed

 

 

To my mind, they've issued the claim, I've quickly ack'd and put defence in, and then they're trying to amend it without my or the court's agreement.

 

I think this is the best way to proceed ... any thoughts anyone else?

 

ta

ds

[Goldlady]

Hi downsouth, if you click on my username and threads started by me you will see the three CL/Cohens threads. They messed up on procedure all the way through - for example issuing the claim before they sent the assignment letter, which was wrong anyway.

 

Best of luck:D

[WormHasTurned]

(did you get the letter from Lewis dated 24/11/08 demanding payment by 01/12/08?).

Pookey

 

Subbing! - I am 3 days behind you - letter dated 27/11/08 for payment by 4/12/08 (and an answerphone message left for me to contact them a few days ago)

 

Here's my original thread: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/egg/54982-egg-asking-charging-order.html

 

this account is in dispute as it is already subject to legal action (a court case which has been 'stayed' for Egg to provide proof) - as yet I have not had a claim form from Lewis - (with my limited knowledge I don't believe they can issue another claim when there is already an existing claim for the same alleged debt :-? ) - but I stand to be corrected if you know better ...

[downsouth]

3rd (out of 3) amendments to claim arrived today. Letter dated 8th, postmarked 11th, sent 2nd class.

 

Account number wrong! That's 2 out of 3 with wrong a/c number on.

 

CCA requests to C L Finance & CPR Requests to Cohens going out tomorrow.

 

Quick Q ref credit agreements (I have copies of 2 sent to me previously from Egg - incomplete, no T+C's anyway) - do they have to quote an agreement/account number on? I had 3 egg accounts and wonder how (apart from date) they could establish which ones tied up to which account.

[creditcardmug]

An acc number should be stated in the POC, its going to give more weight to your defence anyway, as you will have them running around in circles trying to sort out the true balance of each account..when you put them to strict proof of how each claim is made up (Exactly).

 

The T&Cs arent really the issue, what matters is whether the "prescribed terms" are on the document YOU signed..if not game over.

[downsouth]

what matters is whether the "prescribed terms" are on the document YOU signed..if not game over.

 

My supposed signature is NOT on the same sheet as the prescribed terms, and there is no number on each sheet to suggest they belong together.

Also (this is from a 2min search on prescribed terms on Egg accounts) there is no 'credit limit' mentioned, just a 'limit'. No account numbers or any other identifying numbers anywhere.

There is reference to conditions (eg. condition 1, 12 & 16) but no copies of T+Cs were supplied at all.

 

That's from first glance looking at what Egg sent me over 2 years ago. Like I said earlier, Fredricksons couldn't provide the right documentation nigh on 2 years ago and gave up.

 

I can't see this lot having any better documention.

[downsouth]

CCM - Another question I'm afraid! Well two actually...

 

I'm putting together CPR letter to Howard Cohen. Should I use CPR18 Request for Information (as tomterm8's stickied thread at the top of this forum section) or the CPR31 request recommended more recently to similar defendants?

 

And is the template CCA letter (which will go to CL Finance) still the best request for a true copy of agreement, where a claim has been issued against me?

 

Ta very much if you could assist here!

 

ds

[creditcardmug]

The template letter N is ok, but where it says s77(6), delete the (6).

 

As for the CPR, its a matter of opinion which way to go about it, i can tell you they will ignore it anyway, here is one i have used recently,

 

In the Northampton County Court

CL Finance Ltd -v- xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Claim Number: xxxxxxxxx

 

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

REQUEST FOR INFORMATION CPR 18

 

I have received a recent court claim from your organisation. In order to file a defence and counter claim I require some information. Given that this matter is now the subject of legal proceedings, you are obliged to disclose under the Civil Procedure Rules, the information and documents detailed below.

 

The information must be furnished within fourteen days of the receipt of this letter. If you fail to comply, this will be reported to the Court, a copy of this letter will be provided as evidence to the same and an Order enforcing your compliance will be sought.

 

1. A true copy of the executed credit agreement and any terms and conditions that applied to the account at the time of default and at the time the account was opened. True copies of any notice of assignment and/or default notice or enforcement notice that you or the original creditor sent me, with a copy of any proof of postage that you hold.

 

 

1.1 If copies of any of the above documents are to be relied on in court rather than originals, a copy of the Notice of proposal to adduce hearsay evidence required under s2(1) of the Civil Evidence Act 1995 together with proof of the authenticity of the document(s) as required under s8(1)(b) of the Act, including but not limited to:

 

(a) a copy of the procedure(s) used for copying, storing and retrieving documents

(b) a copy of the relevant log entry showing the time and date of the scan or copy, the name of the member of staff making the copy, the method used for copying, storage and retrieval and time and date of destruction of the original document(s)

© copies of internal and external audit reports covering the entire period from the date of the copy to the present to demonstrate that the procedures have been complied with

(d) copies of Quality Assurance accreditation certificates covering the entire period from the date of the copy to the present to demonstrate that the procedure(s) and audit process(es) comply with the appropriate quality standards

 

2. All records you hold on me relevant to this case, including but not limited to:

 

a. Transcriptions of all telephone conversations recorded and any notes made in relation to telephone conversations by your company, or by any previous creditor

b. Where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my account formerly held with Barclaycard.

c. .Documents relating to any insurance added to the account, including the insurance contract and terms and conditions, date it was added and deleted (if applicable).

d. Details of any collection charge added to the account; specifically, the date it was levied, the amount of the charge, a detailed financial breakdown of how the charge was calculated, and what the charge covers.

e. Specific details of the fees/charges levied by any other agency in respect of this account and a detailed breakdown of said fees/charges and what each charge relates to and on what date said fees/charges were levied.

f. A genuine copy of any notice of fair use of my data as required by the Data Protection Act 1998

g. A list of third party agencies to whom you have disclosed my personal data and a summary of the nature of the information you have disclosed.

h. Copies of statements for the entire duration of the credit agreement.

 

 

3. Any other documents you seek to rely on in court.

 

 

I will require this information within the next fourteen days. I must advise you that if the information is not forthcoming, it will be reported to the Court that you are trying to frustrate proceedings and denying me the opportunity to file a defence and counter claim.

 

Yours sincerely,