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I'm having a similar experience with being ignored by Barclaycard and am wondering about stopping payments too.

 

I've CCA'd them for a loan account. There was no response to my original CCA request and now there's been no response to my letter telling them they're in default. They defaulted about two weeks ago.

 

The thing is, there's a direct debit set up to make payments to the account. I don't want to cancel it and have a default on my credit file (even though I know they're not supposed to be able to put one on in these circumstances). But I do want them to respond. Ideally I'd like them to hold their hands up and admit they don't have an original agreement. Any suggestions other than stopping payment?

 

I was considering writing directly to their legal department. Partly because I have a Barclaycard Credit Card and so they have a copy of my signature and I think there's slightly less chance of someone in Legal putting it onto a false loan agreement.

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My thread is here:-

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/162487-hello-newbie-need-lots.html

 

Go to the last 2 pages to see latest replies from Barclayshark (claiming they don't have to provide a true copy of my CCA and my SARs request produced only 6 years of statements and nothing else, no letters, nothing!).

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Hello! Thanks for replying.

 

I will certainly start my own post so that people can follow what happens to me. I didn't do so to begin with because I thought I might get zero responses.

 

I also read Samcam's thread and note the worry caused by Barclayshark's replies. It's weird how the longer the letter Creditors send and the more legislation they mention, the more you think that they might actually be in the right.

 

But without a properly executed (signed) agreement (s61(1)), the agreement is only enforceable by an order of the Court (s65(1)), and the Court is precluded from making such an enforcement order without an agreement signed by the debtor containing all the prescribed terms ((s127)3)). Just making sure I can follow it myself :)

 

I also note how long it takes Barclays to respond to your letters. It makes me think that if I raise an action to have the agreement declared unenforceable, they would fail to lodge defences within the allowed timescale...

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"I also note how long it takes Barclays to respond to your letters. It makes me think that if I raise an action to have the agreement declared unenforceable, they would fail to lodge defences within the allowed timescale..."

 

I'll let you know how I get on in a few weeks! :rolleyes:

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Hi RaoulDuke and welcome to CAG.

 

I've moved your post and replies to your own thread to avoid hijacking another. It's in the Barclays forum as I assume you're talking about a loan a/c with Barclays and not BCard.

 

What address did you use for the CCA request, and include the £1 fee.

 

Did you use our Site template (or similar) and include reference to s77 CCA1974 which deals with bank loans.

 

If you're worried about a black mark on your credit record if you pay late or miss pay'ts, continue paying for another month or two, then review it.

 

If you think you've done it all correctly so far, you should write to B's pointing out they are in default and you would like their response by return. :)

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Thanks for moving my post, Slick.

 

The loan is actually a Barclaycard loan and not a Barclays loan.

 

The address I used was the one on the statement I received from them and I included a postal order for £1. I used the site template and mixed it bits from other templates and quoted section 77. The tone was really curteous. Sent by recorded delivery etc. So the request was by-the-book (thanks to the forums!).

 

I then wrote to them, about 12 days ago, to inform them of their default and explained everything that meant. i.e. That I'm not obliged to pay them anything whilst they remain in default, that they can't charge interest on the account, register a default, or pass the debt on. I said I was going to cease payments on the account until they produced what was required or confirmed to me that they don't have the original agreement.

 

I haven't heard anything at all, a month from my first request. But I'm taking this as a sign of incompetance rather than a sign they won't produce anything. I'm going to try to prod them into some sort of answer, without having them sabotage my credit file. Raising an action to see if they lodge defences in time might be an idea. I really just wanted to know if there was anything else that might get them to act.

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Hi RD,

 

I'm leaving it here anyway or folk will see it as a normal BC a/c, which it's not.

 

I'd leave it a while longer to see if and how Barclays respond.

 

What action are you thinking of taking to get them to react or defend. :)

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But without a properly executed (signed) agreement (s61(1)), the agreement is only enforceable by an order of the Court (s65(1)), and the Court is precluded from making such an enforcement order without an agreement signed by the debtor containing all the prescribed terms ((s127)3)). Just making sure I can follow it myself :)

 

 

Hope everyone had a great XMAS.

 

I was woken this morning by the postman with a special delivery package that I had to sign for.

 

Apart from several reams of computer printouts the package also contained a signed copy of my original application form (no dates or card number, just my signature at the bottom, name of employer, etc).

 

Now does this count as anything? It's only the application form, not a credit agreement - and there are no T&Cs on it, etc.

 

Any thoughts?

Cheers

 

 

PS

Interestingly though, it does show the box for PPI clearly UNTICKED!! Will certainly be using that to claim back as much as I can.

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Sam- that application form is what Bcard hope you think is an agreement...

 

You're home and dry.

 

It counts for naff all. ;)

 

Start a thread for this interesting and expected late Chrismas present.

 

(For that is what it is, and probably the best you will ever get. :D

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  • 2 weeks later...

Just thought I'd give an update.

 

Still no response from Barclaycard, no surprises.

 

They took a loan payment out of my bank account today.

The account has been in dispute since about December 10th. Does this mean that they technically owe me money? :) Should I tell them that? :D

 

So looks like to get ANY sort of response from them I'd have to stop paying them. Obvious I know, but I still think it's a pretty poor thing to force people to do to get you to comply with your legal obligations.

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Hi RD,

 

I assume you CCA'd them around 1st December and pointed out their default around the 12th. Please confirm.

 

You are now within your rights to cancel the payment but I understand if you're loath to do this.

 

Instead you can write to them pointing out their failure and the consequences of it using the letter, suitably adapted, from here - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/barclaycard/167584-barclaycard-no-cca.html#post1805429

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Yes Slick, I CCA'd them and pointed out the default, all 'by the book'.

 

I'm guessing that since there are no arrears on the account my letters have just gone into the round filing cabinet under the desk. And thanks for the suggestion but most of the content of that letter was in my second one pointing out the default.

 

I'll wait till the weekend and target the same one at some key people. Maybe if I threaten some Company Directors with actions against them I'll at least get a response :-D I'm just hoping that I stumble across something a little bit clever that I can pass onto others! It's completely disgraceful that where companies have no agreements they put people through hell for months still trying to get money out of them.

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It's completely disgraceful that where companies have no agreements they put people through hell for months still trying to get money out of them.

I agree, and wish they'd have the balls to 'fess up instead of misleading, ignoring and bamboozling.

 

Otherwise, sounds like you're on top of it all just now. ;)

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I received a reply from Barclays dated 8th January 2009. My CCA request was sent on the 14th of November 2008. 2 months! And this is what I got...

 

Dear RaoulDuke,

 

"I am sorry you have had to contact us about your Personal Loan from Barclaycard. Thank you for taking the time and trouble to do so.

I am looking into your concerns and will let you have a response or update as quickly as I can but no later than 28 January 2009. In the meantime if you need to speak to me please call on.... I have enclosed a leaflet explaining how Barclaycard works to resolve complaints. I hope you find this helpful. Thank you for bringing this to my attention.

Your sincerely, Customer Relations Manager."

 

I laughed out loud when I read it. "I hope you find this helpful"?! Not a clue! I'm thinking that it means someone in customer services received my second letter, became confused, and kicked it up to complaints (it did run for 3 pages). :)

 

It may also have confused things because the account isn't in arrears. I'm guessing if it had been passed to somone in debt recovery they might have known what the heck I was on about.

 

Probably shouldn't be offering consumer credit if you haven't got a clue about consumer credit legislation.

 

Do people think my analysis of the situation is correct or is it possible they looked or are looking for the original agreement??

 

Do you think I should screw with them a bit and write to the person handling the complaint saying that I'm very confused because I haven't made a complaint, only a statutory request?

 

This could get to be fun :D

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Hi Raoul,

 

They WILL be looking for your Credit Agreement but, whether they can provide it or not is a different matter.

 

Give them some time to respond -playing games with them is unlikely to be productive or even satisfying. ;)

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I'll just leave it be then. Although, they probably shouldn't have given me a copy of their complaints procedure which states that they acknowledge complaints within 5 working days, when my default letter was sent on December 10th and wasn't acknowledged until January 8th. Is there anything they can do competantly? Let's hope not! :)

We'll see what I get before the 28th.

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  • 3 weeks later...

As expected, I haven't received anything.

 

So they're still digging around for a credit agreement or they're just taking their time to send out standard terms and conditions with a letter saying that this meets their obligation to provide a true copy.

 

What should I do? Give them more time to come back with something? Write directly to the person who's handling my "complaint"?

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Hi RD,

 

Stop paying them (if you still are) and send them this:-

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

FORMAL COMPLAINT A/c no. xxxx xxxx xxxx xxxx

 

Thank you for your letter of xx/xx/xx, the contents of which have been noted.

 

You have failed to respond to my legal request to supply me a true copy of the original Consumer Credit Agreement for the above account.

 

On the **DATE** I wrote to you requesting a copy of the credit agreement and other information under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (Sections 77-79).

 

On **DATE** a member of your staff signed for delivery of my written request and I have an electronic proof of delivery showing their signature and the date.

 

To date you have failed to comply with these requests in any way, whether by confirmation of receipt of the request or by supplying the requested documents.

 

These documents I requested should be readily available as proof of your legal right to collect this account under the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

In my letter of the **DATE** I made a formal request for a copy of the signed, executed credit agreement for the above account under section 77(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. In addition a full statement of this account should have been sent to me detailing all debits and credits to the account.

 

Furthermore, you are aware that the Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working days for a request for a true copy of a credit agreement to be carried out before you enter into a default situation.

 

This limit has expired.

 

As you are no doubt aware section 78(6) states:

 

If the creditor fails to comply with Subsection (1)

 

(a) He is not entitled , while the default continues, to enforce the agreement.

 

Therefore this account has become unenforceable at law.

 

You have failed to comply with a lawful request for a true, signed copy of the said agreement and other relevant documents mentioned in it, failed to send a full statement of the account and failed to provide any of the documentation requested.

 

Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS.

 

Furthermore I shall counterclaim that any such action constitutes unlawful harassment.

 

Please note you may also consider this letter as a statutory notice under section 10 of the Data Protection Act to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect.

 

This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from my records with any credit reference agencies.

 

Should you refuse to comply, you must within 21 days provide me with a detailed breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data.

 

It is not sufficient to simply state that you have a ‘legal right’. You must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends.

 

Should you not respond within 14 days I expect that this means you agree to remove all such data.

 

Furthermore you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take ANY

Action against an account whilst it remains in dispute.

 

The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies.

 

* You may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

* You may not add further interest or any charges to the account.

* You may not pass the account to a third party.

* You may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.

* You may not issue a default notice related to the account.

 

 

I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authorities as I see fit.

You have 14 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint.

 

Despite my letter regarding ANY communication from your company, which stated that I require ALL communications in writing, your telephone calls continue.

 

This behaviour constitutes harassment; the letters stated quite clearly to you that I require ALL communications in writing for future use. Do not telephone me again - remove any telephone numbers you hold for me from your systems.

 

Your telephone calls are in breach of the Office of Fair Trading guidelines. If you continue with them after the receipt of this letter an official complaint, together with a log recording the times and frequency of the calls will be passed both to that office and to the Trading Standards office. For your information note that ALL telephone calls are taped.

 

This type of debt collection method is contrary to the ‘Administration of Justice Act 1970’ in that it is intended to cause alarm and distress to the recipient. Your methods will not be tolerated. A formal complaint, containing copies of all correspondence including yours, has now been submitted to the relevant authorities. This will be relevant to questions of your fitness to hold a licence under the Consumer Credit Act, whether or not it results in a prosecution.

 

Take further note that continued telephone calls after the receipt of a request not to call may constitute a criminal offence under Section 127 of the Communications Act 2003.

 

Communicate in writing and ONLY in writing, your telephone calls will NOT be answered.

 

HOWEVER, CALLS WILL TRIGGER COMPLAINTS TO THE REGULATORY BODIES.

 

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

 

I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

 

Yours faithfully

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