Gas/electric wont accept our payments

[Happyfeet24]

Hi,

 

One of our many increasing debt problems is with Gas and electric.

 

We are behind with payments for both and have tried to negotiate payments with our suppliers for the last 3 months every attempt we make we are told that there is a minimum (which we can't afford) that must be paid by d/d. The 2nd option is a payment card but the repayments are even higher than on d/d

 

We opted for d/d and have managed so far to move them each month as a stalling tactic whilst we try to gather together what we can to pay but everytime time we have a reasonable amount we're told it doesn't meet the minimum and isn't accepted.

 

Where to we stand on a legal ground? Is there anyway that we can force the suppliers to lower the d/d amount to what we can afford? or can anyone advise on our best tactic?

 

many thanks

[marchstvn]

some one else can probably expand on this a bit more , but......

 

ask for pre-payment meters and they will normally take back £2 out of every £10 you put on the key/card

[Happyfeet24]

Hi marchstvn,

 

Thank you for your reply, it's my fault for being so vague on my post. I should have mentioned that the gas supplier has already said that they can not fit a meter to our house. They say it's due to the area that we live in, we are also h/a if that makes any difference. But they have sent many letters saying they may either disconect the supply or fit a meter and then when we phone and make an offer they refuse and then say they can't disconnect because of our circumstances and can't fit a meter. So their letters are all standard and mean nothing to us.

 

The electricity supplier (e-on) has been very quiet, they haven't sent many letters, they happily move our d/d date each month, but that worries me as it can only mean that they no they have the upper hand when they want to clamp down on us. They also refuse our offers stating that it must be the minimum that they set.

 

So we're a bit stuck as to what to do

[Conniff]

What I would do in your position is to cancel the direct debit and start a standing order for the amount you can afford, make sure that it is paid each month.

 

You don't say how much you are in arrears, but with a direct debit being variable they could ask your bank for any amount, say £300 which would probably bounce leaving you with bank charges to add to your problems.

 

I know they are supposed to give you notice when dd payments are to be increased, but that don't stop most of them doing it without notice..

[dx100uk]

Lo Agn!

 

been through this mill too!

 

cancel the DD as advised & i pers wouldn't make an ST either!

 

on the back of your bills is the info to pay online, now assuming your have online banking just transfer by 'billing or WHY' option on bank website what you can afford each month.

 

write them a letter explaining that you cannot pay more and that for the next X months, would they kindly accept this proposal as you can do no more. p'haps indicate when the situation might improve.

 

you are being honest see what they say

 

dx

[DCA-KING]

I would also tell them that you will be contacting ofgen stating that they are refusing payments that you can afford at the moment ogen are investaging all suppliers on how they charge different prices between england, scot and wales and also why now oil has dropped in price why they have not dropped there prices just read this

Consumer Focus responds to Ofgem announcement - Consumer Focus

 

so i dont think they will want anymore complaints

regards DK

[Happyfeet24]

Thanks everyone,

 

Conniff - I hadn't realised they were able to increase the d/d like that so certainly in the case of e-on who are concerning me the most I'll cancel the d/d, gas is with EDF so I'll cancel that one too. Our bank account is with Abbey who have charged us huge unauthorised overdraft fees recently, we've just managed to get out of the cycle they put us is in of charging for being overdrawn then charging because the charges but us over again and we don't want to go back to that so we'll follow your advice to avoid it and get the d/d's cancelled. On the subject of online banking with Abbey for anyone who's reading that uses the facility, we received a spoof/phishing email this morning claiming that our access to the online service for our account had been barred as the passwrod had been entered too many times and to click on the link provided ect ect. I know it's off topic here, but just thought it might help someone to give it a quick mention just to be on guard at the moment.

 

dx100uk - We do have online banking and together with the advice from DCA-KING we'll make an offer in writting of what we can afford and also mention ofgen. We haven't heard of them before so I'll have a detailed look at the link provided. It's a relief to know that there is a power to get involved. When writting the offer, should we include a budget plan showing our incomings (able to be shown on one hand!) and outgoings? or will it not make a difference in this case?

[dpick]

Hi I used to be supplied by e-on and I paid them via internet banking every two weeks when I got my benifits all I did was split what they said the monthy amout was between the two payments never had any argument from them. I now do the same with npower same no argument, the money goes straight into their account with the same details as the DD would have done so the rubbish that some suppliers give that it is more work for them is crap.

 

dpick

[Happyfeet24]

Hi dpick,

 

we should have done this sooner, but they told us that if we use any other method than d/d then it'll cost us more. I'm starting to see the pattern forming here, I ask them a question and they give a lie as a response:mad: well. I've certainly got more confidence to tackle the problem now that I've got strong advice as backing. I think I'll put the offer in writting and just go ahead and pay it with their say so or not. I could have got this sorted a long time ago if I'd just done that in the first place instead of asking their permission and being told no

 

Thanks everyone:)

[jackieandwayne]

Hi! This nonsense about "the area you "live in". Ask them to put that comment in writing. Take it to your HA Housing Officer (who will have no objection whatsoever to you having a prepayment meter if you so wish). Any good HO should take this on board - how dare anyone cast aspersions like this about "the area you live in" just because it has some social housing in it! Many, many, people live in social housing, and yes, some estates aren't the best, but I do find that decent residents bring an area up to a decent standard. With people being able to "bid" these days for council/HA housing, they are actually choosing the area they live in - and a lot of decent people will want to live in these so called "bad areas" - that will raise the profile of the area.

 

And anyway, its not like it used to be - 10 bob bits in the meter, local hoody comes along and nicks it! No reason whatsoever not to give you a prepayment meter if you need one to assist you - and certainly not because of the area you live in. Other than mischief, why would anyone want to pinch your gas card out of your meter?

 

If one of my tenants came to me and told me a thing like this I'd go mad and get straight on the phone, with my boss barking behind me!

[DCA-KING]

Happy New year to all the suppliers (NOT)

they have got to pay back billions to customers

1 charging more if you dont pay by D/D

2 The area where you live ie: wales pays 54% more than england Scotland pay 32% more than england

3 paying more if you use pre payment

4 Oil went up gas & electric went up oil came down gas & eletric didnt

OFFGEM as told them its discrimantion and they got to start paying it all

back

They have 6weeks from 1st dec 2008 to sumit a plan to OFFGEM on when they dropping prices and paying it back

Regards DK

PS link to site is in my other post (6)

[Conniff]

with the advice from DCA-KING we'll make an offer in writting of what we can afford

 

Send a cheque for that amount with the offer, and continue sending cheques for the offer amount each month no matter what they come back with.

[DCA-KING]

found this as well

Debt and disconnection

Suppliers make considerable efforts to encourage customers to discuss their circumstances with them directly so that a suitable payment arrangement can be put in place to recover the debt. Failing that, suppliers have an obligation to offer the installation of a prepayment meter to avoid the need for disconnection.

Suppliers have put in place a further safety net offering further protection for vulnerable customers. This includes:

fitting a prepayment meter (where it is safe to do so) or putting the customer onto the Fuel Direct payment scheme.

If offers of help are refused and the customer continues to be at risk, social services will be notified for further support and assistance.

[Happyfeet24]

Hi again, and thanks everyone:)

 

I've followed the advice and this morning received a reply from E.ON.

 

They've rejected my offer but made a counter offer of double. They have explained the reasons for this, stated my weekly usage and how much extra they need towards the arrears.

 

In my offer I stated an amount I would pay per week for 6 months and then an increased amount for 6 months after that (a 150% increase, which after working out our finances would be affordable) This would clear our arrears and pay bills sent within this time period. So at the end of our proposed year plan we would in theory be in credit. It all works on the basis that we can't afford much this first half of the year so need LOW payments but the 2nd half we'll be better off and can make much higher payments to catch up.

 

So anyway, E.ON aren't interested in that idea they want high payments from the word go regardless of a 12 month plan to get the account into credit. They did say in the letter that if their counter offer was unsuitable then they said we should consider a prepayment meter with a set amount deducted per credit. I don't know were we stand on this because our house is rented from an association.

 

I'm going to make 1 final offer of a couple of pounds more per week than original proposed. We really can't afford any more than that for the 1st 6 months.

 

The question is if anyone can help, is, roughly how much money do pre payment meters use per week? We have no experience of them at all. I've got to take into consideration that a % of what we put on will be wiped for arrears anyway. we're a 2 bed with 2 adults and 2 children, are these meters in general more expensive than a non meter bill? The problem is that if it's going to cost more per week than my offer to E.ON than it's not going to be an affordable option.

 

If we or our association refuse to have a meter installed what would E.ONs actions be? or more to the point, where do we stand an a legal basis?

[davethorp]

We are also in a 2 bed house with 2 adults, 2 children. Partial central heating with the kids room heated by an electric oil radiator and the living room by a gas fire.

 

We are currently topping up between £15 and £20 a week on each meter.

 

Hope that helps

[Happyfeet24]

Thank you davethorp, yes that does help, alot.

 

Although we don't have an oil heater we do have lights on at night for our children because they are so young, so taking the lowest estimate that you mentioned and including the % that E.ON want towards arrears then I can say with a great deal of confidence that a meter is not affordable.

 

I do like the idea. It would make us 100% energy efficent, because we would have to be. But we still need to have a standard amount of usage and it's just not affordable with the arrears included.

 

Our house is 2 nearly 3 years old and every light fitted is an energy saving bulb but it's a type that isn't available in shops, only direct from the manufacturer. Some people might know the type I'm talking about, they cost around £25-£30 each and we have 6 that have blown out and 3 that are nearly gone. So even more expense:( We're using lamps at the moment - bring on the Summer:)

 

I'll stick to my 2nd offer letter on that basis.

 

Where do E.ON and I stand reference to the law on this one?

Edited January 21, 2009 by Happyfeet24
silly spelling

[DCA-KING]

Hi have you phoned consumer direct tell them your problem and they will look into it they hAve taken over from ofgen

regards dk

[Happyfeet24]

E.ON have refused my 2nd offer by sending a duplicate of their first reply. Very inventive.

 

EDF have ignored my offer and sent a letter again saying they will disconect our supply or fit a meter.

 

In relation to EDF for our gas;

 

They say in their letter that if the meter is on the outside of the property then they can fit a pre pay meter without a warrant. But if they can't get to it then they will get a warrant to gain access to fit it.

 

Am I right in thinking that they do need to apply to court to fit a pre pay meter and I will get the chance to object? regardless of its location on the house. I'd be objecting on the grounds that I made a very fair offer that they couldn't even be bothered to acknowledge.

 

DCA-King, I haven't yet, I thought I had the situations under control, but now it's looking like I will contact them. Any advice as to how to approach the subject with them?

[pelham9]

EDF have ignored my offer and sent a letter again saying they will disconect our supply

Yes they do have to go to a magistrates court to get a disconnection warrant. They must inform you of the time and place of the "hearing" and you will need to turn up to "defend" otherwise they will get an automatic default judgement.

 

These warrant applications are taken by the utility's warrant officer in a large bandle ( perhaps as many as 50) and the magistrate will sign all these warrants with minimal enquiry in less than half an hour. If you are there to "defend" the warrant officer will automatically pull their application and you will never go into court.

 

A friend of mine has never received a correct bill, for her meter at the correct address and in her name from British Gas since moving in 2.5 years years ago. She had phoned and written to BG on numerous occasions but nothing changed. Eventually a month ago she received a court notice that a warrant of disconnecttion had been applied for - the application was in her name but addressed wrongly.

 

She turned up (with me) and spoke to the warrant officer who immediately withdrew the application from the bundle of about 30. He promised a visit after he had dealt with the undefended warrants and did indeed turn up.

 

He listened to the story and admitted BG were at fault. He took her offers to settle the matter away with him with the promise that we would hear from BG within the week.

 

The only communication she has received from BG since then is yet another bill not addressed correctly and not in her name. Par for the course!!

[Happyfeet24]

Thanks Pelham9,

 

Going on your advice of the situation and reading a few other posts the letter I received from EDF is a complete load of rubbish. I'm sending a letter tomorrow stating that I'm dissapointed they have not acknowledged my offer and asking them to confirm that they accept it and then I can start paying.

[Happyfeet24]

Letter sent to EDF's London office and their payment office in Plymouth again asking them to let me know that they accept my offer.

 

I've accepted E.ON's counter offer as the arrears are so high I'll just have to make do and get those sorted. Doesn't leave much for EDF though.

 

Whilst ignoring my offer, the letter that EDF sent, apart from the fitting a meter without a warrant rubbish said that they will send a rep from their debt recovery team week commencing 9th. (even though I'm doing everything I can to sort the situation asap)

 

Does this 'rep' have any authority to be at my property? and can I instruct him that I will only discuss the account in writting?

 

 

Happyfeet:(

[pelham9]

No he does not. If you so wish you do not have to talk to him and you can certainly tell him that everything shoud be in writing. It might be interesting to hear what he has to offer but do not make any committments. Tell him to put any offer in writing and say you will think about it then.

[shalzak]

Hi - Just thought I'd include a thought here - Energy suppliers charge a fee for what is known as a PDV (Pre-Disconnection Visit) this is generally £25-30 per fuel (if with same supplier) and adds to your debt. Obviously best to avoid this by not having anyone visiting your property !

 

Your electricity is not so much of a problem - the gas is a different matter. Basically, you do not need gas to live therefore warrants are obtained lightly and actioned accordingly.

 

The suppliers are looking for you to cover consumption per month and then some towards the debt. Are you on benefits ? If so, they generally look for £3 per week for each fuel. This would apply on any prepayment meter.

 

If you are not on benefits and at least one of you are working, unfortunately you have to make higher goodwill repayments. Bear in mind, that gas and elec fall under your priority debts i.e. rent/mortgage, then council tax, then gas/elec, water etc. Your credit debts for instance, car loan payments, catalogue payments, credit card debts etc all come a very poor second to your priority debts.

 

Hope this helps - I had a PDV before christmas and ended up with a further £50 added to my debt... aagh !

[Happyfeet24]

Thanks everyone,

 

sadly at the moment neither of us are working which is what's caused this situation. The £3.00 towards arrears and then weekly useage figures as that is what E.ON demanded and wouldn't budge.

 

From what has been said about Gas not being essential and warrants issued lightly then this may point to why EDF (gas) are ignoring every letter I send them begging them for a repayment plan. I'd imagine they're ignoring me so that they can obtain a warrant for a meter which would gaurantee to get their arrears back as we'd be forced to put money on it.

 

It's all so underhanded though because if they were to either accept my offer or tell me a minimum weekly repayment then they'd still get the arrears back just as quickly.

 

 

 

If this is EDFs plan then I'm glad I'm keeping recorded delivery receipts and copies of the letters I've been sending them as I'll certainly be making my side clear if it comes to court! I might send a few extra letters aswell rather than leaving a weeks gap between them.

[Happyfeet24]

3rd letter sent to their London office and Plymouth office asking to accept my repayment plan or state a minimum considering my circumstances.

 

Official complaint also sent to the plymouth office to the 'managing director of customer service' I suspect in EDF terms that roughly translates as 'Mail room supervisor' But at least I've done my bit.

 

If this were my house then I'd not be so worried about a rip off meter being installed, but it's not, it's rented from an association and I don't want to rock the boat with them by causing a pre pay meter to be installed. This is why I'm so annoyed that EDF are ignoring every letter I've sent them asking for a repayment plan.