roors v MBNA

[roors]

Hi

 

Have other threads going re Lloyds ppi and Egg - but here's my MBNA story - CCA them 2 Dec 08 - todate no response - was getting phone calls but requested that they remove any telephone nos they had from their records and have not heard from them via phone for nearly 1 week - did receive a letter from them today asking that I contact re default - didn't pay last month - ran out of money.

 

At same time as I requested CCA - I only just noticed that I was paying PPI - didn't ask for it and to be honest didn't even know it was there - not too good at checking statements. Anyway received their final response today also - and according to them I ask for it at application stage - had card since Jan 04 - and they sent out terms and conditions of Policy - which I never read - don't even remember getting them and also they advised that they updated conditions in 2007 - at that time my father was terminally ill and I couldn't have cared less what came was posted to me - so again don't remember getting it. MBNA have advised that my next course of action is via FSO - what if any advice can anyone provide for me:confused:

 

roors

[Ragtaggeorge]

Wait for them to take you to court, which they will do eventually if they have an enforceable agreement.

They also start the court process to intimidate you into paying, they will have to disclose the agreement they intend using to prove their case before the trial.

So check back here if you receive a letter from the court.

[roors]

thanks ragtageorge

 

however should I continue to pursue the ppi claim:confused:

[Ragtaggeorge]

I think as general rule work out which option is the best in money terms.

If you claim PPI or charges you are effectively acknowledging the agreement and might have a judge who says, unlawful enrichment.

So CCA or PPI plus charges.

[roors]

Hi

 

Can someone advise if this is enforceable

 

thanks roors

 

plhttp://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5422&stc=1&d=1232015194

MBNAagreement.pdf

[hellhasnofury]

Hi

 

Can someone advise if this is enforceable

 

thanks roors

 

plhttp://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5422&stc=1&d=1232015194

 

Hello Roors,

 

Sorry not stalking you:D, just followed your link from the ppi forum.

 

IMO was they have sent to you as a ca request is a joke. It would appear what they have sent you is the tear off slip that you sign, when you applied for the account. No prescribed terms on it whatsoever:Dand where on earth does it say anything about ppi:mad:

 

Send a pm to rory32 or banker rhymes with or one of the mods with a link to this thread, to check out your pathetic ca:D

 

As for the terms and conditions, they are not the originals as it states clearly £12 penalty charges.

 

I do have some experience of MBA and their tactics and fob offs:rolleyes:

 

I have a thread kicking about on the MBNA forum somewhere, maybe have a read of it, it will give you an idea of what they actually do get up too.

 

I think it is extremely unlikely for them to issue court proceedings against you, they normally just sell it off to an DCA.

 

I would say that all is not lost, regarding claim back all penalty charges and ppi from them on what appears to be a joke of an agreement.

[Ragtaggeorge]

Actually you can claim the PPI I was not sure if they were lumped in with reclaiming charges.

There should be a seperate contract even if the PPI is not shown as such on the agreement.

[roors]

Thanx for responses - will get account in dispute letter off to them tomorrow. As far as the PPI goes along with the things I posted was a completed application from their website - it got yes next to PPC - but I really don't remember asking for it:confused:

 

With regard dispute letter - is there a standard one?

[roors]

Hi

 

Can anyone help - need to know what to do next. I PM'd rory32 on 16th and so far haven't had a response.

 

Thanks

 

roors

[banker_rhymes_with]

Hello Roors!

 

Thanks for the PM.

 

I regret I can't seem to open the PDF Copy of your Agreement. It's coming up as a damaged PDF when I try to Open it.

 

IGNORE THIS! It opened fine on the last attempt. No idea why!

 

Will now take a look.

 

Cheers,

BRW

Edited January 18, 2009 by banker_rhymes_with
Opened OK eventually.

[banker_rhymes_with]

Hello Roors!

 

I think Hellhasnofury's comments are valid.

 

It looks like a poor Microfiche Scan of an Application Form that has no Prescribed Terms. The page with your Signature (which I assume you have hidden), is hard to read, but can just about be read.

 

It says that you have received a copy of their Credit Card Terms and agree to be bound by them...suggesting they are in another Document. The Prescribed Terms cannot be found in another Document, so these can only be general Terms.

 

There's a 2nd Scan that appears to have some Prescribed Terms, but there are no references linking the above two Pages...no Barcodes or Scanning References at all, and nothing on the Pages that seems to link them in any way that is clear and not open to question.

 

The 2nd Scan is also much harder to read. It's illegible, and can only be read by guessing what some of the words say. If their actual Scan is as illegible, then who can say what it ever did say?

 

MBNA would need to produce the Original copy if they wanted to try and Enforce this, and that would have to have the above as the Front and Back of the same Page.

 

That is always a risk, i.e. they may have such a Document. But, if they do not have such a Document, then all they seem to have are two Scans with nothing concrete to link them.

 

The rest of the Terms are recent, so are OK for complying with s78(1) but, unless they can show they had an Original and Enforceable Agreement with original Terms that allowed them to vary their Terms, then the current Terms are irrelevant for Enforcement purposes.

 

Read the following Post from Paulwlton, where he has Posted a copy of what the Chief Executive of the Office of Fair Trading had to say about CCA Request responses, original and current Terns, and the likely need for an Original to be produced in Court:

 

Letters from DTI /Oft Regarding CCA1974 Issues – Post #49

 

Cheers,

BRW

[roors]

Hi BRW

 

Thanks for response - default letter ready to be posted.

 

roors

[roors]

Hi All

 

Received a letter in this mornings post from MBNA - they are advising what they have sent is sufficient for credit purposes and will continue to pursue me for outstanding balance and continue to add default penalties to the account - can someone advise what my next course of action should be?

 

Thanks in advance

 

Roors

[banker_rhymes_with]

Hello Roors!

 

I regret I don't have a Template for that, but there's a few kicking around on CAG that should do the trick.

 

I think Rory32 has drafted a good one, so look his Posts/Threads up and I'm sure you'll find it.

 

But the thrust is to pick apart what they can send back in response to s78(1), and show them what they have sent is just not good enough.

 

Then tell them the really bad news that what they can get away with in response to s78(1) is not the same as what they'll need to enforce in Court.

 

What they have sent is not enforceable, because it's a nasty brace of crabby Microfiche Scans flying in close formation only because they only moved closer together, from where ever they lived before, when sent in the same Envelope!

 

Before that, the two Scans could've been in different towns for all anyone knows. There's no evidence they were ever part of the same original document.

 

If either can't be read in any key areas, like the Prescribed Terms for example, then they are not even compliant with s78(1) let alone suitable for enforcement in Court.

 

Cheers,

BRW

[roors]

Hi, is there anyone who can help with template letter re response received from MBNA - sent private message to rory32 and haven't had response - any help appreciated.

 

roors

[angel_1]

hiya roors

 

you have very very similar to mine and many others

 

if you have not seen this thread underdog is speaking with a solicitor on monday and it may be useful for you to view the thread

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/mbna/184041-all-mbna-caggers-fight.html#post1980458

 

take a look for yourself laters angel x

[roors]

thanx angel_1 - have viewed thread and subbed it.

 

roors

[roors]

Hi - is there anyone who can help with template for MBNA re one of my posts above - regarding CCA information provided - sorry for being a pest but getting desparate

[lexis200]

Hi roors

 

I've got a few letters that I'll pm you that should contain the bits you need if it would help. You'll need to pick and choose the relevant info for your situation, but it would give you a starting point to go from.

 

In addition to that though it may be worth sending an SAR to them as well, specifically requesting the actual agreement, as opposed to what will comply with the CCA1974. My thoughts with this are that if they ignore that request too (more than likely) it is less probable that they do have an agreement they may suddenly find later on. This at least gives you a bit of a firmer base to decide on the next course of action.

 

If/when they default you, make very sure you keep a note of when it arrives. They seem to be leaving about 16 days which should be plenty to cover them, but then they are sending the DN's by second class post, so they arrive with less days for you to remedy than are allowed. Oh, that and they seem to be referencing a paragraph/section 8 that doesn't actually exist on the agreements we have!

 

Just as a note, MBNA are not easy to deal with. They like to completely ignore what you actually write about, and send you letters that rarely contain any pertenant info. I have been relatively lucky regarding phonecalls, and have managed to all but stop them for OH. Others have had complete nightmares with them, so I suspect that's down to luck/who sees your harassment letters.

 

We have only got as far as being defaulted (with a dodgy DN) and passed onto a DCA (even though they have not fully complied with CCA as have never sent historic terms). Despite having it threatened many times, they have never instigated court (sods law we'll have something turn up in the post tomorrow now I've said that!), and this is with what is on the face of it an enforceable agreement. What you have is most definitely not as it stands, so as you've been advised in earlier posts I would think they will not be too likely to go down that route.

 

Do remember though this is only my own personal experience with them, so it may not follow through the same for you - with any luck it'll go much better:)

 

Lexis:)

[roors]

Thanx Lexis

 

Any help would be gratefully appreciated - received my monthly statement yesterday and due to non payment they have continually added interest late fees and over limit fees to the account balance now £8k - they have however suspended PPC - their doing not mine - I was contesting PPI and they said I asked for it - wasn't sure if I could still pursue them to recover it or do I just go with the non enforceable route?

 

roors

[roors]

Hi - update re MBNA received a letter from Optima Legal this morning and guess what they will take me to court - they have attached income and exp form - does anyone have any suggestions on what to do next. MBNA are continually ignoring my letters and still adding interest.

 

Thanks in advance - roors

[web2dude]

I've just received the same info and letter. Looks like Optima are a debt collection litigation company. If your credit agreement is unenforceable, they will need to prove that it is in court. I guess that MBNA have sent a bulk of these out with a hope of resolving a percentage pre-legal action. Let's wait and see what happens.

 

Has anyone else had similar letters??

[web2dude]

In the meantime by the way, I'm not responding!

[roors]

Thanx for response - I've got no intention of replying either - might see you in court though!!!

[roors]

Thanks for repsponse - will keep you updated - roors