Any Other Jobseekers Out There?

[ajax95]

Hi

 

I lost my job at christmas (office support with engineering company), and finding it difficult to get another job at the moment.

 

I'm with several agencies, but so far all I've had is half a day filling in at a call centre... :-|

 

I'd be interested to see if there's anybody else in the same boat

[godpikachu]

yes, im in the same boat.

i was laid off from my job as a logistics manager on the 11th of november 2008, since then i have had 1 job interview out of 130 applications.

 

where possible, i prefer to avoid dealing with employment agencies, as through dealings and bad experiences in the past with them, they are now all tarred with the same brush, and have yet to prove to me that they are actually interested in finding me work, and not just interested in generating commission for themselves.

 

one thing i have found is that taking temp jobs through agencies while you wait for something permenant to come along actually counts AGAINST your future empoyment prospects, as most employers dont see it as you taking something temp to ake ends meet, they simply see it as that you are an unreliable and disloyal employee (a fact which is usually conveniently forgotten whenever they need someone quick to cover for sickness or absence from an agency).

 

The jobcentre have been no help whatsoever, every time i ask about any of the numerous training schemes they advertise promenently on their walls, the only answer i get back is "dunno".

no one ever available to talk to you about things, and you dont really get any assistance whatsoever unless you have been unemployed for 6 months.

Last time i asked about being elligable for a course to get an SIA badge, they asked me 3 questions, and you had to be able to answer yest to one of them to be elligable. the questions were:-

 

"Is your first language something other than english?"

"Are you unable to read and/or write?"

"Do you have any criminal convictions?"

 

pathetic...

 

another thing that really gets my goat is "ethnic job fairs"....., im sorry mr indian or mr african or mr polish or whatever, but i need a job just as much as you and i dont see why i should be excluded from the running because i dont have brown skin, which in actuality makes no difference whatsoever to my ability to do the job. I can put some boot polish on my face and still be able to do the job the same as i could without it.

 

ive just realise dim ranting...ill stop now..GRRR!

[monkeychicken]

These ethnic job fairs...

can you tell me where the next one is? I'd like a job too!!

[Happyfeet24]

I'm in the same boat.

 

I'd love to be back in work.

 

I might be able to cover the price increase of food in supermarkets if I did. It's getting crazy now. Every week everything goes up, I wish I'd bought a years worth 6 months ago

[pompeyfaith]

just popped in to wish all you job hunters good luck god one thing i also found if you are working for an agency you are not making yourself available to look for work.

 

I had this problem last year i had a total of 156 interviews and nothing so i did an NVQ in computing still nothing.

 

The problem i have is i had a stroke some yrs ago which left me with a drop foot club hand and a slight curvature in my back and soon as employers see my hand they dont wana know.

 

I had 1 employer asking me why i was looking for work that really ****ed me off.

 

Anyway now i thought whats the point so i went to my GP and explained the situation and he gave me a 3 mth sick note and therapy since then ive been signed off long term and getting I.B also about to claim DLA and look for voluntary work.

 

Regards

 

Pompeyfaith

 

Happy id love to be in work too shame in my situation there are too many blockades

[ajax95]

A lot of familiar stuff on this thread, especially agree about the Job Centre, they really are useless. I doubt if any of the people who work there have ever been through any of this ****...

[monkeychicken]

These ethnic job fairs...

can you tell me where the next one is? I'd like a job too!!

 

Still no word from Picachu about these ethnic job fairs.

 

God its bad enough being brown in a white mans land and being treated as if youre stupid, if there are any benefits at all, I want to take absolutely the full advantage!!!

 

 

DO COME ON PIKACHU, WHERES THE ETHNIC JOB FAIRS, PLEEEEEEASE (I'll even call you Massah!)

[godpikachu]

dont try and play the race card with me.

 

if you lived where i lived you would see at least one ethnic job fair per quarter, minimum, in my opinion, this practice is unfair and racially discriminating against white people.

 

i dont care if any ethnic people want to whinge about my assertion, ethinic job fairs are racist, and they are illegal.

 

this country has become far too politically correct for its own good.

[skonk]

You know what, I went into the jobcentre and told them that I had done a bit of research, and I wanted to train to work for Trading Standards, as I was fed up of being the **** on peoples shoes when you work in retail and are treated like that by customers, so i wanted to try get myself a career.

 

The advisor made a kind of, er yeah well er, kind of face and told me that I probably need a degree to do it. I said it is helpful, but not essential, and some certificates are needed, which can be done at college. I asked her to find out how much help i can get, and her actual words were these,"Look, I'm not saying you're thick or anything, but these jobs are extremely hard to get into. I think you should just stick with what you know and keep doing retail, as you have to understand, you have now set your sights too high over retail, and there is 99% chance you won't get on the course to earn those certificates, you are technically not making yourself available for work."

 

I walked out of there, feeling like I'd been shouted at by my dad when I was 5. I'm not ashamed to admit that I have been handling depression for the last two years, was finally having something in my head to work towards, a bit of light at the end of the tunnel, ya know? and after that interview, I have lost all desire to do any job that can inspire me and further my career. I can't believe the attitude of that person

[monkeychicken]

dont try and play the race card with me.

 

 

Pikachu

 

How am I playing the race card? It is you who is playing the race card - you complained about the ethnic jobs fair

I didn't

 

I just asked you where these ethnic job fairs that you mention are.

 

Over the last 25 years I have lived in London, Essex, the Midlands and the North. I have been looking for jobs everywhere, yet have not once come across an ethnic jobs fair. What I have seen are jobs fairs which are more than 99% white, aimed at the majority.

 

If anything, they can only be classed as whte man's jobs fair.

 

if you lived where i lived you would see at least one ethnic job fair per quarter, minimum, in my opinion, this practice is unfair and racially discriminating against white people.

 

i dont care if any ethnic people want to whinge about my assertion, ethinic job fairs are racist, and they are illegal.

 

I totally agree with you. If there are any such ethnic jobs fairs, they would be illegal and racist, and I will support you and help you if you wish to bring an ET case against any employer participating in such ethnic jobs fair.

 

It is true if I found an ethnic jobs fair, I would look for a job through it, because I feel I have the deck of cards stacked against me in many ways, but that doesn't mean I don't feel they would be unfair.

 

I have faced overt and covert racism, some of the worst kind. And I will try to prevent such racism against nayone, whether they are black, white or whatever. Nobody deserves to be treated less favourably because of their race.

 

this country has become far too politically correct for its own good.

 

This is sheer nonsense. You have not said what you mean by political correctness.

 

My view is that political correctness is taking care to ensure that your deeds and words do not cause offence, even inadvertantly, to any group of people.

 

You cannot possibly have too much of it. I wish everyone was more aware of the impact of their word and actions on other people. You can never have too much consideration.

 

If what you mean is that employers are favouring one particular group over another, for whatever reason. I agree that this practice should be stamped out. But that is not political correctness. We have a word for that, its called racism. And we should all work towards eliminating it from our society.

 

Show me the instances and I will work with you to see if we can make the perpetrators answerable in a legal setting.

 

If you say that you should be favoured because you are white, then you are spouting racist views.

[ajax95]

You know what, I went into the jobcentre and told them that I had done a bit of research, and I wanted to train to work for Trading Standards, as I was fed up of being the **** on peoples shoes when you work in retail and are treated like that by customers, so i wanted to try get myself a career.

 

The advisor made a kind of, er yeah well er, kind of face and told me that I probably need a degree to do it. I said it is helpful, but not essential, and some certificates are needed, which can be done at college. I asked her to find out how much help i can get, and her actual words were these,"Look, I'm not saying you're thick or anything, but these jobs are extremely hard to get into. I think you should just stick with what you know and keep doing retail, as you have to understand, you have now set your sights too high over retail, and there is 99% chance you won't get on the course to earn those certificates, you are technically not making yourself available for work."

 

I walked out of there, feeling like I'd been shouted at by my dad when I was 5. I'm not ashamed to admit that I have been handling depression for the last two years, was finally having something in my head to work towards, a bit of light at the end of the tunnel, ya know? and after that interview, I have lost all desire to do any job that can inspire me and further my career. I can't believe the attitude of that person

 

And THAT is exactly what makes me really mad about the people who work in the Job Centre. It was out of order for her to talk to you like that.

Unforunately, I know their attitude towards people all too well, the way the act towards people hasn't changed a damn bit over the last 20 years or so

Worse still I can't see it changing

[amsie]

Interesting thread, and I hope you all find work.

 

On the Jobcentre, when I was an employer, we tried the jobcentre and found that most of the applicants we had were either of extremley poor quality, or were failing interviews deliberately to avoid work & keep there beneifts. Several of them were petty up front in telling me about it.

 

Also, we had a bright young trainee who wanted to do NVQ's, so we applied for grants, only to be turned down, as the young lad was already working. Apparently, if he was out of work for 6 months, then you get a grant. Disgusting.

 

On the race thing, I employed Black, Asian, White & East European. As long as they could do the job properly, I didn't care where they were from, and unfortunately, there are a lot of White English idiots out there who let you down & don't have any pride in their work (Im English White myself).

 

In fact, I would go as far as to say we avoided White English towards the end because of the bad track record of most of them.

BTW, we were tiling contractors in construction.

 

I don't agree that overall it's hard nowdays for a black person to find work, certainly not in construction, nor IT (my previous profession). In fact, in several jobs when I was in IT, I was in the minority.

 

I do agree that I think the principle of ethnic/female job fairs are unfair to White males, if they exist.

[skonk]

What really got to me is, I went in there, after doing lots of research, and expected to get some good advice on my next step, and was totally shot down in flames and treated like one of the work shy lot that come in. It seemed to me that I was putting them out of their way.

 

There probably are decent people who work there, but unfortunately, they probably get used to the scallies and workshy people who go in there, and unfortunately tar everyone with the same brush.

[Happyfeet24]

In fact, I would go as far as to say we avoided White English towards the end because of the bad track record of most of them.

 

I hope not too many other employers share that view. Or us decent potential employees are stuffed:eek:

[skonk]

I actually think that having that attitude is borderline racism. I admit that a lot of people, and I hate using the term white english, just aren't interested in having a job, but to say we end up avoiding white english is pretty bad. Colour hasn't got anything to do with it. If they don't have the right attitude, then they're not for you, and unfortunately that is the way a lot of the unemployed people out there don't have the right attitude.

[godpikachu]

Pikachu

 

How am I playing the race card? It is you who is playing the race card - you complained about the ethnic jobs fair

I didn't

 

I just asked you where these ethnic job fairs that you mention are.

 

Over the last 25 years I have lived in London, Essex, the Midlands and the North. I have been looking for jobs everywhere, yet have not once come across an ethnic jobs fair. What I have seen are jobs fairs which are more than 99% white, aimed at the majority.

 

If anything, they can only be classed as whte man's jobs fair.

 

for the sake of privacy i wont mention where they are spefically, however i will reveal they are in the yorkshire area, and to my knowledge there have been at least 6 of them since this time last year in and around the area.

I attended one of these events and to be honest none of the jobs that were there were particularly appealing, basicaly being minimum wage, short term, shift work in warehouses etc

i managed to pull off my attendance there because i am dark skinned, thus i could appear to be east european, but i didnt speak to anyone otherwise my accent would be a dead giveaway, lol.

 

 

This is sheer nonsense. You have not said what you mean by political correctness.

 

My view is that political correctness is taking care to ensure that your deeds and words do not cause offence, even inadvertantly, to any group of people.

 

unfortuneatley, this isnt the case, political correctness is being used to discriminate against white people in cases where they are being turned down for work because they dont fit into certain critera.

i was turned down for a job because the employer, and i quote their words.. "were looking to recruit females in the 18-25 age group at this time"..this was a job working in a call centre, another job i was turned down for because they stated that they were using "positive discrimintion" to encourage people from ethnic minorities to apply for positions.

 

funnily enough, none of this was put in writing, because the companies concerned, although attempting to make a statement about being an equal opportunities employers, are still afraid that they will face being branded as racist organisations due to their dscriminatory recruitment doctrines.

 

in my opinion, political correctness does not drive out predjudices, it reenforces some and creates new ones, simarlarly, so called "positive dscrimination" is still discrimination, id be hauled over the coals if i said i wasnt willing to employ blacks, asians, catholics or jews, but yet its perfectly fine to say that i wont employ single white males.

 

You cannot possibly have too much of it. I wish everyone was more aware of the impact of their word and actions on other people. You can never have too much consideration.

 

You know what, I went into the jobcentre and told them that I had done a bit of research, and I wanted to train to work for Trading Standards, as I was fed up of being the **** on peoples shoes when you work in retail and are treated like that by customers, so i wanted to try get myself a career.

 

The advisor made a kind of, er yeah well er, kind of face and told me that I probably need a degree to do it. I said it is helpful, but not essential, and some certificates are needed, which can be done at college. I asked her to find out how much help i can get, and her actual words were these,"Look, I'm not saying you're thick or anything, but these jobs are extremely hard to get into. I think you should just stick with what you know and keep doing retail, as you have to understand, you have now set your sights too high over retail, and there is 99% chance you won't get on the course to earn those certificates, you are technically not making yourself available for work."

 

I walked out of there, feeling like I'd been shouted at by my dad when I was 5. I'm not ashamed to admit that I have been handling depression for the last two years, was finally having something in my head to work towards, a bit of light at the end of the tunnel, ya know? and after that interview, I have lost all desire to do any job that can inspire me and further my career. I can't believe the attitude of that person

 

yeah, this attitude is typical of the dole office.

during the last "review" i had to attend, i asked about various options open to me for retraining etc, and my advisors EXACT words (and i will never forget them) were..

 

"..It is basically our job to move as many people through here as possible, regardless of their requirements. If you want to go on training courses etc, it is up to you to find them and find funding for any charges they my make. Its not our job to put you on any courses which we believe would give youfalse hopes about finding work, which is why we only offer basic free courses, none of which you personally need to attend because it is obvious you are literate, numerate and quite savvy.."

 

so, he was more or less saying that because i am not an idiot, or a work shy layabout, that im not entiteld to any assistance whatsoever because in the governments opinion, i shouldnt be having trouble finding a job, but yet here i am, its been nearly 3 years since i last held a permeneant, full time job, everything i have had since then has been temporary, with zero prospects for permenant work, advancement or anything.

It just seems to me as though nobody is bothered anymore, all they are bothered about is making as much money for themselves while treading on those below them and treating them like soemthing they would scrape off their shoe.

[skonk]

Its not our job to put you on any courses which we believe would give you false hopes about finding work, which is why we only offer basic free courses, none of which you personally need to attend because it is obvious you are literate, numerate and quite savvy..

 

This is basically what they said to me. I had to go to a review with someone, regarding literacy and mathematics, so they could assess me if I needed help with interviews, etc. I went in and she gave me 2 papers. Both had a 20 minute time limit on them. I completed both in under ten minutes, and handed them back to her. She said that there was no way i could've finished both of them, and i told her, a ten yr old child could do these in ten mins, and I know I got one question wrong, it was a spelling one and it was the word "Necessary" and I always get that one mixed up. She went through the papers, and agreed, they we're all correct apart from the spelling one, and I had pointed it out. We then spent the next half an hour talking about music, tattoos and concerts, as she was a bit of a rock chick, and she said this to me...

 

"It's obvious you have a brain, I shouldn't be telling you this, but the majority of people I see can't string two sentences together, and they have no interest in finding a job whatsoever. It's people like you I feel really sorry for, as it's obvious you have a brain, and unfortunately, the staff here aren't equipped to deal with people who have a brain"

 

Just seems like we are fighting and endless, losing battle.

[godpikachu]

yeah, i had to do one of those laughable "tests" too, it took me all of 10 minutes to complete all of the papers which they said we had 45 minutes to finish.

 

The problem is, they assume you are an idiot, and dont take into consideration things like availability of suitable jobs in the area, personal circumstances, work history, qualifications etc, they just assume that because oyu are signing on, you must be some kind of illiterate moron who is only good for making babies, drinking cheap cider and gracing the inside of a police cell.

 

in my case, i am a single white male, with no children, no convictions or in fact any problems with the police. I dont owe anyone any money, and am an approachable and good humoured person.

 

I left college in 1997 with qualifications in english, maths and IT, i later went back to college through a work sponsored program to gain more IT qualifications, and i am basically now a fully qualified IT and electronics engineer.

i also have numerous work gined qualifications and experience in Admin, customer services and logistics, as well as some experience in vehicle mechanics.

 

the main problem i have faced, other than politically correct recruitment policies, is that many places refuse to employ me because they say either i am "overqualified", which is ridiculous, or that due to the number of temp jobs i have had over the past 3 years (since i was made redundant for the 3rd time in my life), they state that i am "unreliable".

 

ive even had employment agencies (who mainly deal in temp jobs) refuse me for temp work because of this so called "unreliability".

 

one other thing i have noticed is that some places are now preferring to recruit people aged under 25 for jobs, as obviouly they dont have to pay them the full minimum wage as they would with me, im 29, therefore the minimum p/h rate would be £5.95 for me, AFAIK, whereas someone aged 19 would only be getting £5.25 p/h.

I was turned down for a job with an electrical retail company as their webmaster/tech guy for the above reason, the job went to a 19 year old who left after 6 weeks for a job with higher wages, i know this because we were the only 2 who applied for it, and i was turned down, and when he left they called me and asked if i was still interested, i said i was but they said that i would have to sign a disclaimer stating that i would work for the wgaes they were paying the 19 year old, which was under min wage for my age group, i refused because by then i was already working in a position with higher wages than that anyways.

[amsie]

godpikachu, when I first got into IT, despite the obligatory MCSE, I had to start at the bottom, taking a pay cut from my 24K a year job to a measly 12k. I was 25 at the time. Same reasons as yourself, qualifications but no experience. Within a year, I was on 36k. Im going back 12 years, but then IT was very quick moving. Its not uncommon when starting a new career to start at the bottom, and work up, only IT offers a quicker progression than most other careers that I know of.

 

The trick is to get in these places quick, learn your trade, get some experience, then move on.

 

Not sure where you live, but being close to London helps.

 

Cheers

 

Paul

[godpikachu]

godpikachu, when I first got into IT, despite the obligatory MCSE, I had to start at the bottom, taking a pay cut from my 24K a year job to a measly 12k. I was 25 at the time. Same reasons as yourself, qualifications but no experience. Within a year, I was on 36k. Im going back 12 years, but then IT was very quick moving. Its not uncommon when starting a new career to start at the bottom, and work up, only IT offers a quicker progression than most other careers that I know of.

 

The trick is to get in these places quick, learn your trade, get some experience, then move on.

 

Not sure where you live, but being close to London helps.

 

Cheers

 

Paul

 

 

yeah, i too started at the bottom and over the course of 5 years i worked my way up, both through working and through training/qualifications, it was just unfortuneate that i got made redundant as the company i worked for moved its base of operations to somewhere else and decided to downsize its staff base, otherwise id still be working there.

 

i have the experience and the qualifications, but IT jobs are like rocking horse **** in the area, which is why i decided to look into customer services, admin and logistics as alternate careers.

also, i am hampered by the fact that i do not own a car, as i cannot afford to run one, which means that i am stuck with having to rely on public transport to get to and from work, which, for some reason seems to upset employers.

 

its basically one of those catch 22 situations which shouldnt really be happenning, but yet is.

[ajax95]

I've got plenty of experience, no-one I've worked for has had anything bad to say about me, but it looks as if there's more chance of winning the lottery at the moment

 

My current gripe is where the countless agencies I'm with constantly tell me that they've got "some irons in the fire" (or whatever phrase they've been told to tell you) only for you to find out 24 hrs later that it's all come to nothing.

 

And then they rub it in by saying "it's a shame we can't get you anything cos you're such a good worker/got so much experience" etc etc

 

Hope I'm proved wrong...

[godpikachu]

what you have to remember about agencies is they are not employers, they are sales agents, and their product is people. The "consultants" get paid a commission for every contract they get, and every employee they put on a placment, they are also targeted to achieve X placments per week, hence why they tend to "cherry pick" the people they put forward.

They only choose the people that they believe will have a pretty much 100% chance of getting the job, set by a series of very narrow criterias in the job description they are given by the end employer.

 

Stuff that counts against you as far as they are concerned are things like:-

 

Previous temp work

Location

Travel arrangments

Long term unemployment

 

 

As with other sales based jobs, the people in them are not averse to telling lies or bending the truth to get their commissions, and they are very competitive, hence why you will get agencies telling people in permenant employment to give up their jobs in favour of a job with them.

[Happyfeet24]

That figures.

 

I spent a short time a while ago using one.

 

They got me 2 interviews within a space of 2 weeks, so not bad.

 

But, the first interview wasn't for the position that the agent told me it should have been, and the 2nd was a complete disaster that put me off using one again.

 

They told me what the salary was (the minimum I told them I'd accept) I went to the interview (didn't think to confirm the salary as I trusted the agent) got through to a 2nd interview, went to the 2nd interview and got a job offer from the employer a week later directly by to me by phone. Turns out that the salary the company was offering was around 5k lower than what the agency had told me. Absolute waste of time.

[ajax95]

Sad but true...

 

Unfortunately most companies where I live go through the agencies first. It's a classic case of Catch 22

 

(Just have to keep telling myself to keep looking, otherwise I really am screwed)

[Surfer01]

I was made redundant last year at the end of October due to the company going into administration. As opposed to other stories the local jobcentre have been very helpful and friendly, however at the grand age of 59 years and with a slight disability finding a suitable job is not easy!

I detest dealing with recruitment agencies as I only get £60.50 per week and going for wasted interviews with a recruitment agency costs money. One agency made an appointment which involved a round trip of 25 miles plus parking only to be told on arrival that the agent that I was to see had gone out to see a client! Really p*ssed me off!

I surmise that this recession will last well into 2010 before things bottom out. The economy will start to pick up again in about mid 2011 at the earliest.

Government policy to spend the way out of this recession is wrong because all it will do is bring on another recession a lot quicker. This is the Keynesian theory and although it works initially in the long run si bad for the economy in the long term. If we can weather the recession for the next two years without loans etc, then we will be heading for boom times again.