NatWest and AIC

[missdpd]

Ok will try and keep this as brief as i can. I have an overdraft with NatWest that was terminated back in November. Prior to this i was paying them £40pm on agreement with them for 6 months. Once the 6 months were up they wrote to advise me they no longer could accept £40pm and wanted an amount way beyond my means. I explained my situation to them, im on Income Support and get CTC and CB, but this made no difference to them and so payments to them ceased. Things went quiet for a bit until i recieved a call from a company called Allied International Credit =. I had the most obnoxious rude man i had ever encountered who basically made me feel i was the **** of the earth. He threatened me with bancruptcy if i didnt pay and when i said fine he laughed at me down the phone. He wanted to know what i had spent the money on and why wasnt i paying. I explained to him my situation and told him i was only going to offer £10pm now as i have to find extra funds to pay gas and electric bills. Had another call about a week later from same company offering me a reduction of 50% if i paid within 2 days, told him impossible and if he looked at the notes on computer he could see what my situation is. He told me to try and borrow it from friends or family and to phone him back. That was the last straw for me, SAR'd NatWest and statements received within 7 days and i wrote a letter to AIC offering £25pm as my maximum limit, reducing weekly shopping bill £5 a week to offer them that and stated i no longer wished to communicate on the phone and if they wanted to contact me to do so in writing, any further harrasement on phone would be reported. Had a further 3 phonecalls which i have ignored and i have recieved a letter yesterday refusing my offer and to phone them to discuss.

Im now at a loss as to what to do really, they know my circumstances, i sent an I & E into them without them requesting yet they still want to talk to me about the account grrrrrrr. Does anyone have any ideas as to how to proceed? Also is it still worth starting a claim for bank charges given the decision the other day? Unfortunately all my charges are post 2003 Oh and they are still adding interest to my account as well which certainley does not help my position

 

thanks

[missdpd]

bumpy...........anyone?

[rory32]

You should certainly start the process of reclaiming. What percentage roughly of the overdraft is made up of charges?

[hellhasnofury]

Ok will try and keep this as brief as i can. I have an overdraft with NatWest that was terminated back in November. Prior to this i was paying them £40pm on agreement with them for 6 months. Once the 6 months were up they wrote to advise me they no longer could accept £40pm and wanted an amount way beyond my means. I explained my situation to them, im on Income Support and get CTC and CB, but this made no difference to them and so payments to them ceased. Things went quiet for a bit until i recieved a call from a company called Allied International Credit =. I had the most obnoxious rude man i had ever encountered who basically made me feel i was the **** of the earth. He threatened me with bancruptcy if i didnt pay and when i said fine he laughed at me down the phone. He wanted to know what i had spent the money on and why wasnt i paying. I explained to him my situation and told him i was only going to offer £10pm now as i have to find extra funds to pay gas and electric bills. Had another call about a week later from same company offering me a reduction of 50% if i paid within 2 days, told him impossible and if he looked at the notes on computer he could see what my situation is. He told me to try and borrow it from friends or family and to phone him back. That was the last straw for me, Subject Access Request'd NatWest and statements received within 7 days and i wrote a letter to AIC offering £25pm as my maximum limit, reducing weekly shopping bill £5 a week to offer them that and stated i no longer wished to communicate on the phone and if they wanted to contact me to do so in writing, any further harrasement on phone would be reported. Had a further 3 phonecalls which i have ignored and i have recieved a letter yesterday refusing my offer and to phone them to discuss.

Im now at a loss as to what to do really, they know my circumstances, i sent an I & E into them without them requesting yet they still want to talk to me about the account grrrrrrr. Does anyone have any ideas as to how to proceed? Also is it still worth starting a claim for bank charges given the decision the other day? Unfortunately all my charges are post 2003 Oh and they are still adding interest to my account as well which certainley does not help my position

 

thanks

 

Hello and welcome,

 

I am so sorry that you are having such a rough time.

 

Can I ask why you have not gone for the charges even if they are post 2003.

 

My charges are are even before this and that has not stopped me. There are ways around the limitation act:grin: so I would consider nothing ventured nothing gain. They are basically coming after you, so return the favour:grin:

 

Dca's have to comply with the office of fair trading guidance on debt collection and it is scandalous what this dca is doing to you. They are not allowed to try to make you pay any more than you can afford, they are not allowed to threaten you, with threats that they cannot do, to make you pay with money that you can ill afford. Even a court would not make you pay anymore than you could afford.

 

Do not talk to these bullies on the telephone unless you can record the call:grin:, if they call, do not be drawn into any discussion whatsoever, tell them to put it in writing and hang up. This will make you feel a bit more in control. They won't be so threatening in their letters and would tell you to ask friends and family for money.

 

 

Maybe start a thread on the debt forum, there is loads of help advice and support for your there.

 

Never forget there are many many people in this situation, it is not a criminal offence to be in debt and you do have legal rights:grin:

[missdpd]

You should certainly start the process of reclaiming. What percentage roughly of the overdraft is made up of charges?

 

Well total OD on two accounts is around £7500, did the charges spreadsheet last night and without interest on penalties and that the total is around £2500 and with all the interest inc 8% interest comes to just over £4000, which just brings me to another quick question, which amount do i put in my first letter regarding charges claim? Do i use all of them apart from the 8% as i read somewhere that is for when it goes to court or something? Also an interesting thing, thought i would try something so i took all the charges and penalties away from the overdraft and the figure came back as nearly the same as what they offered me to settle.

 

Hellhasnofury - didn't claim before because i guess i was being naivve and thought i deserved the charges because i got myself into this mess but after reading loads on here have decided i will fight back and try and get at least a bit back, like you said they can't do owt else to me, the worst they can do is go for a CCJ and they certainley won't gain by doing that. Just sickens me that banks are quick enough to be nice when they want your business but just as quick to show their true colours when you need their help.

[rory32]

Well total OD on two accounts is around £7500, did the charges spreadsheet last night and without interest on penalties and that the total is around £2500 and with all the interest inc 8% interest comes to just over £4000, which just brings me to another quick question, which amount do i put in my first letter regarding charges claim? Do i use all of them apart from the 8% as i read somewhere that is for when it goes to court or something?

The 8% should technically not be added until the court claim is filed. However instead of claiming 8% you could put in a claim for the charges plus contractual interest (the rate they are charging you on the overdraft). You can claim this in your first letter and then in your court claim put that you want the contractual rate or the statutory rate, leaving it up to the court to decide.

 

Also here's a letter you can send to AIC.

 

ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

Your ref:

 

 

Thank you for your letter of **DATE**, the contents of which are noted.

 

 

I am disputing the total value of these debts with **BANK** due to unlawful and unreasonable charges. As such, therefore, I consider this account to be in dispute and no further action or payment shall be made until this matter is resolved.

As per OFT guidelines Section 2.8k "not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonably queried or disputed debt."

 

This process may take some time, due to the Office of Fair Trading's test case, but I will try to expedite this issue as a matter of urgency.

 

Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS.

 

After taking advice, I am of the opinion that your continued pursuit is in violation of the Administration of Justice Act 1970 section 40, Protection from harassment Act 1997 section 3 as well as breaching a number of the OFT Collection Guidelines.

 

I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authorities as I see fit.

You have 14 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint.

 

I hope that you will enter into a sincere dialogue with me about this matter and I am writing this letter to you on the assumption that you would prefer to do this than merely respond with standard letters and leaflets.

 

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

 

I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

 

Yours faithfully

 

Print name do not sign.

Send it recorded delivery.

[rory32]

the worst they can do is go for a CCJ and they certainley won't gain by doing that

Unless of course you have a claim for charges filed at court, in which case they couldn't even do that. If they attempted to get their claim in first then you could simply counterclaim for the charges, in which case the case would be currently stayed.

[missdpd]

Thanks rory32, will get that sorted out tomorrow, should I send letter to AIC who technically, in my opinion, are not even supposed to be collecting the debt on behalf of NatWest as I haven't had a letter from NatWest telling me they have assigned them to do so, or shall I send it straight to NatWest?

 

ta

[rory32]

The claim for the charges goes to Natwest. The ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE letter I posted goes to AIC.

[missdpd]

Thank you very much

[missdpd]

Claim sent to NatWest today and Account in Dispute letter sent to AIC, wait and see what happens

[missdpd]

Ok might be me being silly and not reading things straight, in which case i apologise for wasting anyones time, it is early in morning after all!

 

I received a Terminated Overdraft Notice from NatWest for my 2 accounts back at the beginning of December. It says on back Date of Notice 28/11/2008 on both of them and last interest applied according to this notice is 28/11/2008. Is this my Default Notice?

 

Now.....

 

There is a section on last page headed Office of Fair Trading Information Sheet. It says:

 

This notice should include a copy of the current information sheet on arrears prepared by the Office of Fair Trading. This contains important information about your rights and where to go for support and advice etc.

 

The bit im interested in is the part that says: Where you are making payments to our collection agent (im not its in dispute), there may be a gap of not more than 1 working day between the date our agent receives a payment from you and when we are notified of that payment. This notice shows the date of notification to us. However as we are not charging further interest on the outstanding debt you owe us this delay doesn't adversely affect you.

 

Now the bit i have highlighted am i right in reading they are not charging any more interest to the account with effect from the date of notice which is 28/11/2008. If this is the case they have charged me interest on 31/12/2008 to both accounts, both of which i have included in my charges reclaim, but the point being should they be there in the first place?. Please can someone clarify if i am reading that right or wrong please.

 

Also.....(sorry)

 

On my credit file the default date for one of the accounts is shown as 31/10/2008 yet i only received this termination notice with the Notice of Date 28/11/2008 on it. The other account isn't even showing defaulted yet. Both accounts were updated on creditfile i have on 18/1/2009.

Is this right? Can the default on the creditfile show a month early before i receive notice?

 

Sorry for long post but im just a bit confused.

[hellhasnofury]

Ok might be me being silly and not reading things straight, in which case i apologise for wasting anyones time, it is early in morning after all!

 

I received a Terminated Overdraft Notice from NatWest for my 2 accounts back at the beginning of December. It says on back Date of Notice 28/11/2008 on both of them and last interest applied according to this notice is 28/11/2008. Is this my Default Notice?

 

Now.....

 

There is a section on last page headed Office of Fair Trading Information Sheet. It says:

 

This notice should include a copy of the current information sheet on arrears prepared by the Office of Fair Trading. This contains important information about your rights and where to go for support and advice etc.

 

The bit im interested in is the part that says: Where you are making payments to our collection agent (im not its in dispute), there may be a gap of not more than 1 working day between the date our agent receives a payment from you and when we are notified of that payment. This notice shows the date of notification to us. However as we are not charging further interest on the outstanding debt you owe us this delay doesn't adversely affect you.

 

Now the bit i have highlighted am i right in reading they are not charging any more interest to the account with effect from the date of notice which is 28/11/2008. If this is the case they have charged me interest on 31/12/2008 to both accounts, both of which i have included in my charges reclaim, but the point being should they be there in the first place?. Please can someone clarify if i am reading that right or wrong please.

 

Also.....(sorry)

 

On my credit file the default date for one of the accounts is shown as 31/10/2008 yet i only received this termination notice with the Notice of Date 28/11/2008 on it. The other account isn't even showing defaulted yet. Both accounts were updated on creditfile i have on 18/1/2009.

Is this right? Can the default on the creditfile show a month early before i receive notice?

 

Sorry for long post but im just a bit confused.

 

Hello

 

That does not seem to be a default notice that they have sent you. It should state DEFAULT Notice and it is a legal requirement under section 88 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

In my experience they don't seem to send default notices, which is very very naughty of them, especially when they enter the default with the credit reference agencies. But all the better for you;)

 

Now they sent me a notice of arrears letter enclosing the information sheet on arrears from the oft. I just wrote back to them stating that I was concerned that they were using this oft information sheet to intimidate me as I would not beleive the oft would endorse the use of this to scare people into paying money to a disputed account. I asked them to refer to the oft debt collection guidance as to what they should be doing.

 

They have written to me stating that they have now after two years of harrassing me suspended recovery action:-x

 

They also were charging interest and maintaince charges(penalty) to my disputed account. They have removed the charges and I have again asked them to remove the interest and stop applying it and to the remove the godd dam default notice or else. So will let you know how I get on with this lot.

 

As regarding the date the default was entered, they are capable of doing anything they like, because they don't think that you will even be aware, or understand what they can and cannot do:-x

 

My advise to you would be to make them aware that you do know what the can and cannot do and question everything thing that they are doing.

 

You may have a few more letters to write to them and if you need any help just shout.

 

On another note were you paying monthly account fees for Advantage Gold??????????????

[missdpd]

Hiya, thanks for that. I have kept a copy of my credit file showing the default and date by them in case it mysteriously disappears should i need it for a later date My credit is shot anyways but its the principle of the way they act, like you said, they haven't informed me that I have been defaulted on this file.

 

I am claiming charges back on the defaulted account but unfortunately there is not enough to wipe off the debt so once things are sorted with them with regards to the charges then they can start having a repayment off me for the rest.

 

The other account was an Advantage Gold but I didn't include the account fee in my claim as I thought I wasn't entitled to claim them back.

[rory32]

What they should have done is send you a default notice identifying the arrears on the account and giving you 14 days from service to remedy the breach. If the breach was not remedied then they can send you a termination notice.

 

am i right in reading they are not charging any more interest to the account with effect from the date of notice which is 28/11/2008

They no longer have a contractual right to charge interest once the account has been terminated.

 

If this is the case they have charged me interest on 31/12/2008 to both accounts, both of which i have included in my charges reclaim, but the point being should they be there in the first place?.

No, they should not have charged interest for this period.

[missdpd]

Thanks for that rory32, like being at school making up rules as they go along to suit them grrrrr.

 

Ok seeing as i have included the naughtily added interest in my claim, should i still do a letter to them pointing out they shouldn't have added it or keep that along with the naughtily added default as a 'card' for a later date if needed?

[rory32]

It's up to you. I always like them to know though that I know far more about MY consumer rights than they do.

[missdpd]

I've received a letter acknowledging my complaint about my bank charges and they are asking me to complete a customer financial statement form in accordance with FSA to see if I can be considered as suffering Financial Hardship.

 

I have already sent AIC an I & E stating all this information, do I need to do it again? They also want an explanation of circumstances leading to my inability to meet my commitments. Again explained to AIC that I am now on benefits and unable to cover the interest they kept applying let alone start paying overdrafts off!

 

I did make an offer of monthly payment to AIC but they refused.

 

Do I respond to this letter they have sent or carry on with the LBA?

 

I have also decided I will inform them of the breaches they have committed, as stated in earlier post. Does anyone have a good letter that I may use to help me with this?

 

Thankyou

 

Least AIC have gone all quiet now, its a small blessing

[Baggio]

Allied are the devils in disguise, totally inhumane set up.

 

love to here about them being pulled down a peg or two.

[rory32]

Do I respond to this letter they have sent or carry on with the LBA?

Carry on with your LBA. Stick to your timescales not theirs, otherwise they will just mess you about for forever and a day.

[missdpd]

Spoke to soon automated phonecall from AIC asking me to call.......yeah right. Letter required me thinks.

[missdpd]

letter done.

 

ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

Your ref:

I write with reference to your letter dated *******, the contents of which have been noted.

As stated in a previous letter from myself dated *******, the charges are currently in DISPUTE with NatWest, therefore, any further attempts to collect will be in violation of the Administration of Justice Act 1970 section 40, Protection from harassment Act 1997 section 3 as well as breaching a number of the OFT Collection Guidelines.

 

Having received a letter AND an automated telephone call from yourselves today, 7th February 2009, you have just broken all the above, an offence which is not taken lightly.

I would just like to reiterate that any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS.

 

Any further pursuit from yourselves with regards to this debt WILL be reported without further warning or information.

Yours faithfully

 

 

Does this look ok?

 

 

ta

[missdpd]

Ok, bank is on notice with a LBA, but AIC are still being pains, thought i had sorted them but, alas, their dictionary obviousely does not define the word 'dispute' in it.

 

Have sent a second letter to them informing this account is in dispute and have today just received a notification of intended visit letter from them saying that i am ignoring them , obviousely that word isnt in their dictionary either! lol. Giving them the benefit of the doubt as the letter is dated the same date i sent mine, but i am going to send them the 'Doorstep Visit' letter just to cover myself and keep the papertrail going.

 

onwards and upwards!

[missdpd]

Ok am filing at court next week for charges but have another question, I do apologise.

When i was filling my claim for charges out i noticed there was a default of account charge on both accounts. For the life of me I cannot remember if I had received Default Notices or not as I was 'hiding' from the problem at that time.

 

Now upon checking my credit file, only one account was defaulted. Am I right in thinking the other one wasn't because I came to an agreement for a monthly payment to them for that one? I subsequently stopped this payment in October because when the review came up they told me the payment wasn't even covering the interest they were levying on my account every month, hence why i then found myself here.

 

At the end of November i received Termination of Account notices for both accounts.

 

Now then.....yesterday I had an alert from Experian telling me of a status change and upon checking my file I have found that NatWest have defaulted this account on the 31/01/2009. Can they do this still even though they have terminated it prior to this and the account is in dispute with regards to court charges? Or even if Default Notice was issued, can they now enforce it because of the above?

 

Sorry to have waffled on a bit but i do get confused easy lol.

 

ta

[missdpd]

bump