E-on problems.

[Silverado 2011]

I'm in quite a bad situation with E-on. Last June I was made redundant and have been since receiving Job Seekers Allowance. Prior to this I had a direct debit set up where I was paying £70 per month.

 

I missed a few months payments and suddenly I received a bill for £664. I rang them and they said that my bill had been previously estimated and that a reading had been taken and the real amount owed was the £664. They pressured me into agreeing an arrangement of £90 per month which I knew I would have difficulty in keeping to. I didnt keep to it and missed December and Januarys payment.

 

Today I received a bill for £951.35 with payment required immediately for the full amount. Being on JSA I don't have anything like that sort of money knocking about and I'm desperately worried that I'll be disconnected. Secondly I live in a small one bed flat and can't for the life of me work out how E-on could have miscalculated my bill to a such an extent.

 

Last time I spoke to them they said that as it was new development I couldnt have a prepaid meter (which I was relieved about as I didnt want one anyway).

 

Anyone have any pearls of wisdom regarding this situation?

Edited February 15, 2010 by Silverado 2011

[reborn71]

I'll add a bump, hopefully someone more knowledgable than I will; be along soon

[pelham9]

I do not think that any magistrate would ever agree to allow them to disconnect your electricty if you were threatened with this. You are a Job Seeker so you should have plenty of time to go along to the magistrates court. But beware you must go along to the court to explain your situation otherwise E-on's application will be rubber stamped. A magistrate will probably suggest to E-on that they reduce the arrears payment or take the matter to a civil court who most certainly will.

 

It seems you are in a newbuild and this is situation that causes no end of trouble. How long have you lived there? Utilities must take meter readings at least 2 yearly and estimated readings are meaningless very soon in newbuilds - how can they estimate usage if there is no data to go on. Maybe the first reading they used when you moved in is a fiction (particularly if it is 0) and you do not owe them what they claim. Did you ring up E-on introducing yourself and giving a meter reading when you moved in? These people do not have sensible systems to check occupancy of newbuilds and fondly believe that builders and new occupants will do the job for them. But builders and new occupants are not informed of this !

 

Give us a few more details. If you still have a direct debit set up cancel it with your bank immediately otherwise you may well run into hefty bank charges. Request E-on to bill you quarterly in arrears. I do not think that there is any difficulty in fitting a prepaid meter to a newbulild and this will be your best choice when you finally sort this out as the arrears that can be collected by these meters are limited in your circumstances. Why do you not want a prepaid meter?

[nottslad]

Fuel Direct may be the best option for you, a prepayment meter may not be possible if the meter is in a cummunal cupboard that you do not have access to.

 

Fuel Direct would be taken straight from your JSA payments and cover your average weekly usage plus £3.25 per week towards the arrears, obviously a smaller amount than can be set on a payment arrangement due to the amount of time the debt can be spread over and that this is a more guaranteed method of payment.

[Silverado 2011]

Well I returned home from popping down the shops and there was a message from Buchanan, Clark & Wells on my answerphone quoting my Eon reference so I was pretty sure what was going on.

 

I gave them a call and sure enough the debt has now been passed to them to collect although Eon still own the debt. The woman took a metre reading as she expected the estimation to be in favour of Eon, however, the actual balance owed has gone up to £1078 from the £951 on the bill I received yesterday. I just can't understand how I'm using electricity at such a rate, its ridiculous. She advised me to speak to the 'Eon consumption team'.

 

I explained that I'm on JSA and she suggested Fuel Direct, she got a fax sent to my benefits office where they will look at taking money straight from my benefit. I'm ok with this as it means that Eon and BC&W will be appeased and I wont be cut-off. I'm just terrified of the size of the debt as it makes no sense in terms of useage and what the repayments taken from my JSA will be as I'm finding it difficult to make ends meet at the moment without having another deduction.

 

Pelham - I had it confirmed again today that I couldn't have a prepaid meter. The reason I was so against them was due to the bad publicity they got last year with expensive rates. I had cancelled my direct debits with the banks also so I'm not incurring any charges there.

 

Thanks all for the help and advice.

Edited February 16, 2010 by Silverado 2011

[nottslad]

What sort of electricity meter do you have? Is it a 1 rate, 2 rate or 3/5 rate (heatwise) as a heatwise metering set up incurs standing charges, if your property is all electric how are you using your heating? there is a freephone number for the energy efficiency team on 0500 20 10 00 who will be able to look at ways of reducing your usage and how you can best use energy

[Silverado 2011]

Oh great I'll give them a call, yes my flat is all electric.

 

There are 3 rates on the meter.

[nottslad]

that will be the reason why prepayment is not a option for you - there isnt a meter designed for this at the moment.

 

Just check that you're using the heaters at the right times, have the right settings on them etc and this may well reduce your consumption in the future

[Marivanna]

Hi Jopea,

 

I am with e.On as well and in a newbuilt and all electric. And have high bills.

 

Here what I have found/done so far:

 

1. I live in mass production Barratts house - they skimmed it to very bare minimum, I am not even sure if they comply with standards, our floor at subzero temperature would not go above 12 degrees Celsius no matter how many and how long for the heater were on, so called u-value, represents overall thermal conductance from the outside to inside covering all modes of heat transfer, must be ~0.25. Calculations take into consideration temperature difference in and out, 12 degrees make more like 2.5 - very rough estimate, but if you are an owner you better look into it.

 

2. Register with e.On online, choose some saving tariff with online discounts, they give 15% for fixed plus 6% for Direct Debit. You will be able to monitor your consumption on site, entering your meter readings monthly.

 

3. Negotiate with them payment plan. Do not be discouraged, they will not agree at first, second and God knows how many attempts it will take you. But eventually you'll get there. Keep in contact and make them feel that you want to pay but cannot, at present. When you keep to yourself, they take it like you do not want to pay.

 

4. Lodge a complaint, insist on a complaint number, with e.On for failing to provide you with reasonable care and skill for incorrectly estimating your consumption. Say they knew it was new property, should have encouraged you / hinted to you they need more accurate readings.

 

5. Recalculate all you previous bills yourself, what tariff you were on, what discounts were applicable - I did and got £90 credited back into my account - if find any irregularities include it into your complaint.

 

6. Go to CAB, they will produce a Financial Statement for you to justify you repayment offer. If you qualify for Legal Aid, they will negotiate with e.On for you.

FS will show that even if e.On passes your debt to a collection agent/go to court, they would not get any more ££ from you than you offer.

 

7. Make sure your benefits are paid into an account with a bank/building society where you have no debts or Direct Debits set up.

 

Cheers.

[Silverado 2011]

Thanks Marivanna, Nottslad et all some great advice.

 

My local Job Centre have been in contact regarding Fuel Direct and Eon want to take just over £41 per fortnight from my JSA which is about a third of my benefit.

 

Its understandable because of the level of arrears but its going to cripple me having that much coming out for the foreseeable future. I guess its a case of coping. :-?

 

I'll set out a plan tomorrow and do things you stated Marivanna, I need to get this sorted.

[pelham9]

Have you checked all your bills yet? Are there any periods when they did not bill you for one year or did not read the meter for 2 years. If you do not have all the bills ask Eon to provide copies and if they refuse SAR them. Until you are sure that you owe what they say you do you really should not be negotiating any settlement.

 

If you agree the amount of the arrears then negotiate very hard to pay a low installment as possible. Bear in mind that you may well be best to ask E-on to take you to court for a judge to consider your financial situation - you can admit the debt and ask him to make an order that in his judgement you can afford. This curiously is a threat to e-on who are unlikely to get what they want from a judge and they will not want the costs involved. The only weapon that the debt collector has is to threaten court action which you should not mind at all so you can safely ignore them. Eon have only involved a DCA because of the unreasoning fear that most people have of them and the threat of court action . You know better. Call their bluff.

 

A third of you benefit seems to me to be outrageouis - you will do much better in court. Unless this problem is realy getting to you you should take your time. There is no hurry and you may well in haste agree to something you cannot afford and be faced with the same situation later on.

 

They could still ask a magistrate for disconnection but you are negotiating a settlement so this is very unlikely in your situation. The fact that they have gone to a DCA which implies a civil court action suggests very strongly that the know you will defend any disconnection action and that they will not win - the only go down that route if they expect a rubber stamp warrant. I have helped a number people threatened with a disconnection warrant and in every case the fact that the defendant was at the court in person to defend resulted in the application being withdrawn.

[Silverado 2011]

Thanks so much pelham, I've been thinking about it tonight and I can't afford the Fuel Direct thing, its just too much.

 

My only worry was by not agreeing to it they'd have me disconnected in a shortwhile. Disconnection has never come up in my discussions with Eon but I just thought thats what happens.

 

I WILL go through all my bills, I'm fairly sure that a reading has been taken once since I moved into the property in June 2007 and all the other times it was estimated. I will go through them with a fine toothcomb though.

[nottslad]

BCW are dealing with live debt instead of an in-house collection agency as their results proved better than ours (maybe some of us at eon were too understanding for the company's liking!)

 

Fuel Direct is set to cover your average usage plus £3.25 per week towards the arrears, never any more; so just double check the readings the account has been billed from and to are accurate as this is obviously how your average is calculated.

[Marivanna]

Looks like thing started moving in the right direction.

 

Back to the estimates and complaint. You may even say that they have unfair policy of deliberately charging you lower estimates to keep you happy and never think of changing a supplier and when you are in considerable debt you will have to pay it and will not be able to change a supplier until you have paid it. Entrapment.

 

May be not true - but how can they proof otherwise? Have they sent you any offers on better tariffs with them? Have they provided you with information about all of their tariffs? I know the answer - they did not. I've just checked their website, they still do not. E.g. you will not find Economy 7 alongside with standard.

 

Plus, some providers have trust funds to help people with fuel debts. Too bad e.On does not, so much for care and skill. Look here

 

Good luck.

[Silverado 2011]

I received another letter from BC&W today with all sorts of threats about disconnection if I dont start making immediate payments.

 

They state that they intend to make an application to obtain a warrant of entry if I don't contact them and a £230 charge will be levied to my account to cover the cost of this.

 

My meter is outside the flat in the communal hallway, I take it a warrant would still be needed if they did go through with there threats and they couldn't just turn up and disconnect?

Edited February 19, 2010 by Silverado 2011

[Marivanna]

Send them a token payment of £5 and inform them CAB is assisting you in preparing the offer - in writing, copy to e.On and copy to Energy Ombudsman with explanation of your current circumstances.

[nottslad]

pointless doing that, the ombudsman wont intervene with pay arrangements and we've already established that your best option is fuel direct to cover your ongoing consumption and debt, take you eon bill to the job centre and get it set up, it will stop all the action on the account and get this matter resolved

[pelham9]

No No Do not pay or offer anything to BC&W! I personally woulld let them waste their efforts and ignore them but I am sure that it is sensible for your peace of mind to do something. If BC&W are acting as agent for EON rather than owning the account (this is 99.9% certain) they cannot make an application for disconnection in their name. EON could but they wont - otherwise why pay a DCA to make the threat.

 

The OFT would consider BC&W's involvement at this stage as unfair practice on the part of EON. EON are using BC&W to intimidate you with threats of disconnection etc. If BC&W continue their harrassment the OFT will be very interested and you should complain to them. BC&W will be warned and if OFT get sufficient complaints they could well lose their licence - many in CAG who have tangled with this DCA would welcome that!.

 

Write BC&W one letter in these terms.

 

The account with EON is in dispute and the amount of arrears is not yet settled. The OFT considers that EON's intimidatory referral of this account at this stage is unfair practice and you should refer the account back to EON. At present you do not think BC&W are culpable in this matter (they are as thick as thieves) but any further communications from them will be considered as harrassment and you will report them to OFT and Trading Standards.

 

Write this in your own words, post it recorded delivery and MEAN it.

 

Then you have to take the attack to EON.

 

Make a formal complaint.

 

Write a history of your occupancy of the property, the bills you have received, the meter readings taken and the payments you have made. You do not consider they have billed you often enough , taken meter readings at appropriate intervals and that suitable monitorring of you account was undertaken - you were paying on a direct debit plan. You do not consider the arrears have ben correctly calculated. (ask at this stage for a copy of their billing code & their Ts & Cs for deemed contracts. If you have any missing bills ask for copies). If they had taken sufficient meter readings and then monitored the account properly the (for you) large amount of arrears would not have arisen at a time of acute finacial hardship. Since receiving the arrears amount you have not been treated fairly. You are in difficulties paying anything off the arrears particulary with the unexpected increase in the cost of your previously underestimated present consumption. Eon's personel do not take this properly into account and are bullying you into more than you can afford. (at this point you can suggest an amount you can genuinely afford - no more than say £3 per week off the arrears). Use Marivarna's entrapment argument - I had not thought of that but it is very possible. Even if they are innocent of this accusation is has the sane effect and you can test them by asking them to release you to another supplier.

 

Finally you should say that you are preparing a complaint to the OFT for referring the account to BC&W whilst it was in dispute/under negotiation, This was simply done to intimidate you and anybody particularly the OFT woulld consider this unfair.

 

Insist that all further communication with you is by letter. Make the point that you will then be able to consider what they say at leisure rather than make spur of the moment and probably unwise decisions by phone. Bear in mind that this could go to court (if only for a judge to assess your payment) and they will not bully in a letter which could be read by a judge. Also you may well wish to involve the ombudsman. Send all your letters recorded delivery and keep copies.

 

I would cancel the direct debit and pay some other way. All this will make for significant delay but soon hopefully you will be in employment? and you will be able to accommodate EON's demands in more comfort.

[pelham9]

Nottsladd,

 

So you work for EON - it is nice to get input from the horse's mouth.

 

Yes DCA's do get 'better' results in terms of extracting money but only because they are far more ruthless and dishonest than the utilities- the misery rate is far higher. The 'inhouse' DCAs that many utilities have set up are fairly successful because people have fear of DCAs because they think they are bailiffs who have very real powers. DCAs have no more power than the utiities but intimidate and harrass without sensible control from the OFT who licences them. Apart from bailiffs, the British have an unreasoning fear of magistrates (for warrants) and the small claims courts (for civil debts) and this makes the threat of court action very successful. It is seldom ever to the advantage of Utilities and DCA's to persist in a court case that is defended but the British public are so intimidated by court procedure and possible costs that they will not defend in person so the claimant succeeds by default very often unfairly. Many warrants would not be granted by magistrates if everybody turned up to defend -it would crash the system which depends on the rubbber stamp.

 

What is quite clear is that the utilities are being unfair to involve a DCA if the account is disputed or under negotiation. United Utilties did this to me demanding some £300 unfairly and at length settling for £200 less - the correct amount. The fact that the account was being negotiated did not stop Concilia comtinuosly harrassing me for £300. At the time I put this down to lack of communication between UU and Concilia. I dealt with them separately and it was only later that I found that Concilia were UU probaby on the same corridor in the UU building in Warrington!

 

That is not a fair way of doing business - but then if you are Goldman Sachs anything is fair if it means profit and BONUSES.

[Silverado 2011]

best option is fuel direct to cover your ongoing consumption and debt, take you eon bill to the job centre and get it set up, it will stop all the action on the account and get this matter resolved

 

Maybe so but what if the the repayments by fuel direct are unaffordable?

[nottslad]

Have you contacted the CAB or Eons Caring Energy team who can look if you are entitled to any further benefits?

 

Also check if your local water authority has a trust fund set up who would help pay towards the balance? Quite often they do, I know that Severn Trent, United Utilities and Thames Water have such schemes set up

[Marivanna]

Cancelling direct debit will remove 6% discount.

 

Fuel Direct

Deductions are usually made from a persons Income Support or Jobseekers Allowance - income based.

fuel - A weekly deduction of £3.25 per fuel debt can be made up to a maximum of £6.50. For ongoing costs it will be the estimated amount of current consumption.

 

£3.25 is better than whatever they try to bully you into, is it not? Plus winter is almost over, your consumption will fall. Request e.On Economy 10 brochure [i have not seen it yet myself - it is on its way] or change to Economy 7 and adopt a vampire life stile - cook and wash, etc. between hours of 00:30 and 07:30 am [+1 during BST] that is 4p kWt.

 

Copies to Ombudsman not to really get you any action, but will put little more stress on e.On and DCA.

 

Looks like we have exhausted all the advice, it is up to you start acting on it. Or not.

[sarnie2109]

For your future electric have you asked about a social tarrif?

I was with Eon and ended up with an electric bill over 3k even though I was paying £150 a month on DD.

I changed to southern electric and because i was spending more than 10% of my income on electric souther electric put me onto a social tarrif, where my electric is now 8pence a unit instead of i think 14p.

I'm now spending less than half of what i was and every quarter i receive a cheque for 20% of what I have used.

As for my eon bill i was paying them £12 a month, but i couldn't afford it.

I have been battling with eon for months now and just send them a token payment each month which i can afford.

 

You are classed as vulnerable as you are unemployed, they can't have what you don't have!

I personally wouldn't opt for having funds taken from my benefit.

[Silverado 2011]

I received the Fuel Direct form today through the post and it states:-

 

£3.25 to pay towards the arrears per week.

£17.00 to pay towards the current useage per week.

 

I rang Eon and asked if the current useage amount could be reduced at all, he just kept replying that I was on the cheapest tariff and this was the minimum amount I could pay. I explained my circumstance to him and he was just a real 'computer says no' type.

 

I even said that if it was a tenner a week I'd sign up immediately but with the payments being set at that level I simply could not afford it. I said that I was desperate to pay something to them but couldn't agree to being put in a position where I couldn't afford to live. Still got the same response.

 

So it looks like I either sign up to something I can't afford, which I think is appalling or take it further. BC&W call on a daily basis which is becomming tedious in itself

 

Thanks all for the advice I really do appreciate it. I've got a lot of work to do today regarding this.

Edited February 20, 2010 by Silverado 2011

[sarnie2109]

Is there no way you can change suppliers?

Agree a monthly repayment with Eon, and pay as you go with a new supplier?

It's what i did!