NatWest Credit Card

[goshort]

Hi All,

 

I am new to this forum and found it via one of the other debt question sites.

 

I have a Natwest CC which I have held for 30 years without issue.

 

In 1987 I left the UK and have been in Europe ever since.

I have never had an issue with card but have been hit very badly by the downturn

and now cannot always meet even the minimum monthly payments.

 

I wrote to Natwest informing them and a asked them to accept £150 - the outstanding balance is £7.3K.

They replied OK, but at the same time slapped an Order on the account via another department as the card was £81 over the limit.

A payment crossed in the post and the card was brought under the limit a few days after the order.

 

For the whole of February I have been writing to them to ask if they could reduce the interest rate and querying their calculation of the same.

I alos requested that any payments I make to the account should be applied to the Cash advances balance first and not the purchases.

In essence they have ignored all my letters, bar one replying simply that the rate should stay as is.

 

When I received my statement it showed that they are still applying the money paid to the purchase balance first not the cash.

 

I dare say I am in for the long run here and I have much to learn.

 

Can someone please point me to some advice or give advice as to what is the best way forward.

I have read some of the threads concerning asking for the original agreement,

I dare say given the age of the card they won`t have it, will this realistically help me ?

 

Essentially I want a lower rate and I want them to reply if I ask them a question.

I do not want to be tretaed unfairly when I have held the card for so long and always been a reasonable customer for them.

They have made money out of me, I can assure you

[maroondevo52]

Hello and Welcome, goshort.

 

I'd go with sending them a CCA request, A debt becomes unenforceable under the CCA if a creditor does not supply a true copy of the signed credit agreement within 12 working days of it being requested.

 

The debt remains unenforceable for as long as the creditor fails to produce the signed credit agreement – this means if they produce the agreement some months down the line, they are quite within their rights to enforce it.

 

 

If after requesting a true copy of a signed credit agreement the creditor fails to produce it, the debtor may now however be in a good position to make a full and final offer to clear the debt.

 

Here's the CCA request template.....................

 

http://www.consumerforums.com/resources/templates-library/86-debt-collectors/581-cca-request-letter

 

You might have to wait a while, could take them some time to wipe off the cobwebs

 

 

 

Regards.

 

Scott.

[goshort]

Hi Maroondev,

 

Many thanks for this update.

 

I just want to add that, I probably like most people on here, am a hard working guy who has over the years just attempted to impove my own position and that of my family.

 

When I see how I have been received by Natwest following this down turn, which has curtailed my own revenue stream, I feel that the whole way along they have been shafting me. When I calculate the interest paid over the years and the rates they are now asking it is simply staggering.

 

I also want to say tht I have no UK assets anymore as I hav been abroad for years, but I do have a house in Europe.

 

Regarding the 12 day rule, I have read alot n the forum about this and other people have posted replies from Natwest stating that payment of the monthly dues proves that one accepts the loan exists and that the fact they cannot produce the original agreement becomes irrelevant.

 

Before I start something with them could you clarify how you see this overall ? I want to be sure of my position.

 

Thanks.

[goshort]

Hi Again,

 

Just a couple more questions, does anyone know what the formuial:algorithm is that Natwest use to calculate their ineterst.

 

I cannot come up with amounts they have been charging me given the figures they quote on their statements. When I use various methods which are quoted as 'typical' interest rate calculations used by cc companies on places like Wikedpedia, the figures do not match.

 

I want some more ammunition against them and would appreciate any help on their actual method of calculation.

 

One of my letters to them requested the maths they use - they have not answered me.

 

Secondly, I am not good at playing chessbut I feel having read many of the threads that people sometimes are not thinking ahead. My point is that one needs to be ready a couple of steps ahead - before you get an answer of lack of answer to a proposal or request that is made to them.

 

Maroondev - can you tell me what I can do as a positice step to take thinsg further if I apply for the CCA dn they eitehr do not reply or cannot find the original papers.

 

Likewise what cna we do aboit postal delys, it takes soemtimes 8 days from post mark and 10 days from letter date for me to receive letters over here. How can this be built into the 12 day day period for a CCA ? Just looking for precise rules.

 

Thanks.

[goshort]

And me again again.

 

As luck would have it or not - Natwest answered me today, ignoring the date on my letter saying only "in reply to your recent letter" and told me that the "application of credits to my account" is explained on the back of the statement". This was in reply to my question asking them whether or not they pay monies to the cash or purchase accounts first. They seem always very reluctant to put figures on paper - this can only be for protection purposes later on.

 

 

The cash account attracts a higher interest rate than the purchase and of course money is applied to the purchase first.

 

The letter edns by stating "unfortunately it is not possible to change the automatic application of credits to the account".

 

My question - this must be written somewhere - in the T and C`s ? Can someone confirm please. I would really like to get this altered so that it costs me less money in the long run.

 

Lastly I have seen this - hopefully it is not illegal to post the thread here.

 

Express.co.uk - Home of the Daily and Sunday Express | UK News :: Credit card rates 'may be illegal'

 

Any comments or what could I do, my rates are much higher than quoted.

[sallysas]

Working out the formula is difficult/neigh impossible for the layman I recall being told as it relies on different 'things'. Reading between the lines are you thinking of going for compound interest? If so do lots of reading as you have to make it plain from the 1st preliminary letter that that is what you are claiming.

[sallysas]

http://www.consumerforums.com/resources/templates-library/51-guidance-notes/233-interest-tutorial

 

This should help. Steven is VERY good. He also has one for credit card agreements. Will get that for you.

[sallysas]

Back again

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/162851-consumer-credit-agreements-guide.html

[goshort]

Working out the formula is difficult/neigh impossible for the layman I recall being told as it relies on different 'things'. Reading between the lines are you thinking of going for compound interest? If so do lots of reading as you have to make it plain from the 1st preliminary letter that that is what you are claiming.

 

Hi Sallyas,

 

THanks for your three posts, I will certainly take a good look at all this info.

 

Truthfully I am not sure what I want to try and go for yet. My account is over 25 yrs old abd it seems almost certain they will not have the original signed agrement. However, from what I have read they seem wise to the fact people try and tell them , there is no agreement and simply state , payment proves acceptance.

 

I am thinking more along the lines of trying to see if they have either increased the interest rate unfairly and or have calculated the payments incorrectly, coupled with trying to get them to lower the interest rate as it stands.

[sallysas]

The iterest rate will certainly have altered over the years. If you do decide to go for compound I have always used the current rate when I have written to them and not worried if it changed one way or the other before submitting my N1 at court - this is only restitution of the money you could have invested elsewhere if they had not applied the charges.

 

Glad you found the info food for thought.

[goshort]

Hi Sallysas

 

An update from me, I delayed a little as although I am keen to get this sorted I did not want to rush into things without thinking them through properly as I would like to come out of all this without too much grief and pain.

 

I have now prepared the letter for an SAR as this seems the best route at the moment - I can hopefully get back any charges which have been applied in error.

 

Thanks.

[goshort]

Hi

 

Been some delay in proceedings. I issued them with a CCA in the end and they came back and told me that they could not find the original paper work, but that in their opinion the debt was enforceable and valid, so no surprised there.

 

I have held off so far on the SAR as I have been flat out on managing and handling another card which is more urgent, with higher outstanding balance.

 

JUst received a letter from Natwest saying that I had previously made arrangements to pay the account at 150 per month and that a review is due as this arrangement is now six months old. And that further the programme will be reported to the credit agencies etc when renewed.

 

Although I wrote to them in January asking to freeze rates and consider a payment plan, they never replied and I have been paying more than the minimum on this one and nor have I had a freeze in interest. The min is more than 150 and I am paying ore than this

 

It now seems they think they agreed something with me and have presumably added a bad mark on my file even though the amount I am paying is more than the min and in fact this account is now starting to come down nicely.

 

Can someone please advise ? I feel I should write saying whilst I asked for asked for an agreement it was never confirmed and further the interest rates were not frozen. if they have marked the file I will challenge vigorously.

 

Any comments ?

[maroondevo52]

Hi,

 

They have not complied with your request, send them the 'dispute' letter........

 

http://www.consumerforums.com/resources/templates-library/86-debt-collectors/571-failiure-to-provide-a-copy-of-the-agreement-within-the-prescribed-timescale

 

Regards.

 

Scott.

[goshort]

Hi Maroondevo

 

OK thanks for this, but about the letter stating there was an agreement ? To me I should write to them and say nothing was agreed - what do you think ?

[middenmess]

Hi Maroondevo

 

OK thanks for this, but about the letter stating there was an agreement ? To me I should write to them and say nothing was agreed - what do you think ?

 

They said they can't find the agreement so do as Maroondevo52 suggests and send the 'Dispute' letter from the Cag library.

 

Have you read what the 'dispute' letter says?

[goshort]

Hi Middenmess,

 

Yes, I am aware of the dispute letter as have been active in this regard on another card.

 

I will fire this off and a further escalation letter to their CEO office concerning the so called "agreement" which they never informed me of.

 

The dispute letter is all well and good - following recent legislation I see it as a stalling mechanism but as we all know it is now very difficult to get the debt written due to lack of agreement. They can`t enforce it.

 

I am not a won`t pay person, I simply got into issues because of the down turn.

 

I will now also issue the SAR request as this should provide me with some illegal charges and interest on them which can be deducted from the outstanding balance.

[goshort]

Along time since I posted - I have been struggling with Nat West in between time - they still have not reduced the rates I am being charged but I did get my SAR request and charges paid back. The amount owing is down somewhat as I have tightened my belt accross the board and I pad the charges off against the account.

 

Now a couple of years on from my orginal post and having alot more experience in dealing with them, it seems clear that what I should have done straight away was to do what Maroondevo2 told me to do in his very first reply - which was Full and Final. Sorry didn't have the nerve for that at the time.

 

My question is - and I know that this has been answered for other companies elsewhere - what shall I start the F&F offer at ? Is 10% of the amount owing too little to be taken seriously.

 

To clarify they never came back with the original documents so a F&F should be possible.

 

Thanks for all the help over the years.

[dx100uk]

overseas debt p'haps be better for it to be moved to that foru.

 

the question needs to be asked

if you ain't in the uk...why are you bothered about this debt?

 

i dont think there is much they can do to you?

 

 

dx

[goshort]

overseas debt p'haps be better for it to be moved to that foru.

 

the question needs to be asked

if you ain't in the uk...why are you bothered about this debt?

 

i dont think there is much they can do to you?

 

 

dx

 

Hi Dx,

 

Thanks for the reply.

 

The card is issues in the UK.

 

My objective was originally just to halt interest and pay them back what I owed - however even that appears difficult to arrange with them. Agreed given the fact they have lost the original papers the debt is unenforceable. Although I have heard of cases - perhaps for larger amounts - where they bring in local collectors over here.

 

I will try 10% and see what this brings.

[cerberusalert]

Did you have PPI with this card?

 

Roughly how much is still outstanding?

 

Because of where you are it is possible to take legal action because of reciprocal agreements but depending on how much is owed would be a contributing factor as to whether they would or not.

 

If they cannot provide a CCA for the a/c although they could produce a reconstructed copy they would still need to produce the original agreement in order to obtain a judgment.

[cerberusalert]

I've moved this thread into the overseas forum.

[goshort]

Yes I have also heard about reciprocal action - hence my hesitation.

 

No PPI and about 4.5k outstanding.

 

I will try and push them to freeze and lower the interest rates. I will also try to approach them via the Ombudsmen - based on the lending code. I informed them in 2010 of my situation witha financial statement , from which it is clear I can't pay anything more than the minimum at the most, they ignored all this multiple times.

[cerberusalert]

Have a look at this information thread; http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?250889-Can-I-Be-Sued-For-An-Overseas-Debt

[cerberusalert]

If you haven't kept copies of all your statements it's possible to send them a SAR which will cost £10. You will then be able to determine what unfair charges they have added over the years & reclaim them + 8% Statutory Interest. If they have been adding unfair charges it could reduce the overall debt considerably.

[goshort]

Hi,

 

I already did the SAR and claimed the charges back. However I informed them in 2010 that my circumstances had changed and I was not in a position to pay anything other than the interest bacK. They basically ignored me and since then have denied all requests to freeze and lower the interest rates. I have another card with a different provider where we have such an agreement.

 

I have sent them so many letters, it has been quite easy to issue a complaint and get them to refund a months worth of interest of get them to give me the odd hundred as compensation - due to the fact they never answer the qujestions nor give reasons for why the deny me the interest rate reduction.

 

I feel I probably have a case against them based on the Lending Code and am also chasing them about this. They have not been dealing with me under the rules of the code so far, therefore I feel they should repay any charges since 2010 and the interest charged.