Advice on Resignation please

[jimmySS]

Hi, I will not give any bs here I need some genuine advice on if I can do anything about a reference/resignation.

 

I was suspended due to alleged gross misconduct, I admitted my guilt and gave the reasons why it happened in my investigatory interview. I also offered to resign with immediate effect if they would accept it. (the interview was with my security department). They documented the whole meeting as you would expect and then decided to accept my resignation, which I was delighted about as I thought I would be able to get a basic reference just stating dates of employment, this was Tuesday.

 

I got a letter this morning from my line manager (who was not in the meeting) stating that I was in breach of contract as I resigned with immediate effect and I supposed to give 4 weeks notice and therefore if I do not reconsider my resignation he will terminate my contract as resignation under suspension. Which tbh is what I was expecting before the meeting, however as the security department heard my pleas of why i commited GM and accepted my resignation(which they are authorised to do) I thought that would be the end of it.

 

Basically my line manager is now being an idiot and trying to screw me even though my resignation was accepted as immediate by the security department. Can I do anything about this??

 

Thanks for listening

[meekmeek]

suggest on monday seek a joint meeting between you - the manager and the security manager

 

basically getting the security and manager to agree on how to handle your resignation

 

from experience a security manager still needs to refer to your employer - whther its your general manager or your HR department before accepting or rejecting your resignation

 

at this point it seems by the sentance that you posted from the line manager- they have not accepted your resignation so on next working day seek a meeting with the two departments and let them squable about the terms of your resignation

 

the two outcomes would be either they ask you to work on for notice period in a more secluded department out of harm of causing more mischief [meant as a comical comment not a accusation] or they accept your immediate resignation.

 

either way you have handed in your resignation letter before a disciplinary has been finalised so they cannot sack you without giving you the same notice period as you say its only the investigation stage of the GM issue

 

so just ask for a meeting to show your willingness to end the issue ammicably and let the two department managers squable over what is best for the company

 

you may find out you get to sit in a office given time to seek new employment on full pay instead of actually working - to avoid any further naughtyness lol

or they just accept the resignation letter where by you requesting immediate affect is your own allowance of not wanting holiday - lieu time owed to you to be paid to counteract the notice period

[teaboy2]

Do you have any written record of them accepting your resignation?

 

Also i believe your line manager, if he were to terminate your contract would still have to give you the 4 weeks notice, even if you are under suspension but, ill need to look that up and get back to you to confirm it.

 

ok i've found the relevent infomation, and sorry to say its not good.

 

Section 86 (6) does give the employer the right to terminate without notice on grounds of the other parties conduct

 

"(6)This section does not affect any right of either party to a contract of employment to treat the contract as terminable without notice by reason of the conduct of the other party."

 

If you do have written confirmation of the acceptance of your resignation, then your no longer under contract as the who meaning of immediate effect is there and then and from that point onwards. So your line manager can not terminate your contract as there is no longer a contract to terminate. But it's vital that you have the written confirmation of them accepting your resignation.

 

Additonal Post:

 

Given what i have said in the qoutation. Then if you have written confirmation of their acceptance, i would there for write a letter acknowlegding their acceptence of your resignation with immediate effect, state that you now confirm and acknoweldge that the your contract of employment is now terminated as of (enter date on the letter accepting your resignation) and as such you are no longer bound to any terms in the contract but you expect them in accordance with employment laws to pay any outstanding entiltements in full including but limited to untaken holidays, along with in so far unpaid salary for work already completed whilst employed .

 

If you have not got written confirmation of acceptence, then i would do what MeekMeek say's and attempt to get an amicable solution. Plus the 4 weeks would be more money in the bank then what you would have if you didnt work the 4 weeks notice.

Edited January 15, 2011 by teaboy2
Added section in qoute and addtion post at the bottom

[meekmeek]

writing letters takes days to process and recieve a reply i would suggest to either seek a meeting with both security and line manager or atleast request they talk to each other and respond verbally by telephone call by end of day and then confirm response in writing

 

if the security manager does not have the authority to accept /reject resignation letter[as most security departments are not part of the same employment managerial structure] you could be doing yourself more harm by not showing willingness on monday to get an answer

 

i have seen people dismissed for going absent without leave 'awol' because they told a superviser they quit but not the qualifying manager - so dont trust that just because the security manager accepted it that your legally fine

 

just have a pleasant chat first thing monday with the line manager to talk to security manager to get to a ammicable way to settle your resignation letter

 

even writing a letter tonight or tomorrow and hand deliverying it and waiting there while manager reads it is far more in your benefit then posting one and waiting for a response.

 

you might be surprised as i said before that they put you in a secluded department to work out your notice thus giving you full award of another few weeks pay[working notice] and then full entitlement to holiday - lieu days owed.

 

by not turning up or delaying responses can cost the company money as if they deem it as not accepting resignation letter they could seek losses against you as the business has suffered due to your actions. [this is hardly ever implimented but it is a possibility]

Edited January 15, 2011 by meekmeek

[SarEl]

Accepting your resignation and mentioning this is a reference are two different things. You admitted gross misconduct whilst under formal investigation - therefore any reference may mention that this was the circumstance of your resignation - immediately or in 4 weeks time. In fact, if asked, the employer must mention it - it is ublawful for the employer to lie in a reference. Accepting your resignation and "that being the end of it" are two entirely different things.

 

You can certanly argue over the four weeks notice. It will certainly be four weeks extra money - perhaps. Having admitted to gross miscoduct you will not get, as a previous poster suggested, to sit in an office to fill out applocations for another job (who will quite probably get a reference saying that you resigned whilst under investigation for gross misconduct) - it is entirely more likley that you will be called to a disciplinary and sacked.

 

You have utterly no grounds to terminate your contract with immediate effect on the grounds of the conduct of your employer - you have admitted to gross misconduct, so it is you and not them in the wrong. It was never going to end happily, and your assumption that they would not mention this in a reference if you resigned was just that - an assumption. So whether or not you have resigned in law, the reference issue is entirely separate.

[meekmeek]

sarEl is correct that an employer cannot lie about the facts of employment - but because the matter did not get to a disciplinary result they cannot say you were involved in a gross misconduct act as it has not been proven yet, just accused [so employers normally would be choosy about their words]

 

by resigning at the point you did has protected your reputation[to some extent] and all the employer would 100% be able to say is the sickness times and length of employment but it all depends on what direct questions new employers would ask you old employer. hopefully like many other employers they do damage limition by declining to go into any details and just offering a basic service length and amount of sickness reference

[SarEl]

sarEl is correct that an employer cannot lie about the facts of employment - but because the matter did not get to a disciplinary result they cannot say you were involved in a gross misconduct act as it has not been proven yet, just accused [so employers normally would be choosy about their words]

 

by resigning at the point you did has protected your reputation[to some extent] and all the employer would 100% be able to say is the sickness times and length of employment but it all depends on what direct questions new employers would ask you old employer. hopefully like many other employers they do damage limition by declining to go into any details and just offering a basic service length and amount of sickness reference

 

Sorry, but "resigned whilst under investigation for gross misconduct" would be truthful. And since the OP has admitted it.... So not quite as easy as that. I know some employers do not go into detail, but it does seem to be a myth that is prevalent that most don't - I know very few who don't.

[teaboy2]

writing letters takes days to process and recieve a reply i would suggest to either seek a meeting with both security and line manager or atleast request they talk to each other and respond verbally by telephone call by end of day and then confirm response in writing

 

if the security manager does not have the authority to accept /reject resignation letter[as most security departments are not part of the same employment managerial structure] you could be doing yourself more harm by not showing willingness on monday to get an answer

 

i have seen people dismissed for going absent without leave 'awol' because they told a superviser they quit but not the qualifying manager - so dont trust that just because the security manager accepted it that your legally fine

 

just have a pleasant chat first thing monday with the line manager to talk to security manager to get to a ammicable way to settle your resignation letter

 

even writing a letter tonight or tomorrow and hand deliverying it and waiting there while manager reads it is far more in your benefit then posting one and waiting for a response.

 

you might be surprised as i said before that they put you in a secluded department to work out your notice thus giving you full award of another few weeks pay[working notice] and then full entitlement to holiday - lieu days owed.

 

by not turning up or delaying responses can cost the company money as if they deem it as not accepting resignation letter they could seek losses against you as the business has suffered due to your actions. [this is hardly ever implimented but it is a possibility]

 

MeekMeek, their his employer of ex employer, so all he has to do is go to them and hand the letter to them in person (off course best get them to sign a note to say they received it), the letter comes into effect from the date it is handed to them as it is then deemed to have been served in person. How long it takes for them to respond is not relevent if he already has a written letter of acceptence accepting his resignation.

 

As i said he should only do what i said if he has already recieved written notification of the acceptence of his resignation. As yet none of us know the time scale between now and when the investigative meeting actually took place. So its possible he did receive such a letter of acceptance only then to recieve one from his line manager (which in such circumstance would be back tracking) So the letter of acceptence would more likely be deemed as to take precedence, as it already terminates his employment. So the line managers letter will have been sent after the contract was already terminated. Making what the line manger says in his letter ineffective (basically good for nothing).

 

As for the security manager being in a position to accept the resignation. Well that is an internal matter between the company and the said manager, but as the manger is the appointed representative in the hearing then he is representing the company. So it would not change the fact his resignation was accepted by the company representative, if he has written confirmation of acceptence.

 

Either way he goes about this, and as SarEL pointed out, the outcome will still be the same. Only difference being whether he gets the 4 weeks notice paid, by working it or at the discretion of the company. Other than that, he won't benefit in the long run either way.

 

And anyway, by what the OP says;

 

I got a letter this morning from my line manager (who was not in the meeting) stating that I was in breach of contract as I resigned with immediate effect and I supposed to give 4 weeks notice and therefore if I do not reconsider my resignation he will terminate my contract as resignation under suspension

So his line manager is treating it has a resignation under suspension. Which in this case, as hes admitted his guilt, makes no difference as to the form of his resignation in terms of immediate effect or under suspension, as they both have the same outcome. That being immediate termination of contract, with notice paid at the discretion of the employer as they may choose not pay, which they are entitled to so under section 86 (6) of the employment rights act. Althought they will still have to pay him all other entiltements, such as untaken holidays that hes entitled to etc.

[elpulpo]

I don't agree. By resigning whilst under investigation for alleged GM, one leaves ones employer open to state the circumstances of your resignation in a subsequent reference. Indeed, as SarEl has stated (either in this post or one in the last day or so), they would be obliged to do so - and remember, the OP admitted their guilt.

 

This is in response to Meek Meek #6

Edited January 15, 2011 by elpulpo
crossed thread

[teaboy2]

I agree.

 

As an employer myself I am legally obiligated to give an honest reference. And in most cases, they do ask about such circumstance's, and as such i am obligated to give an honest reply to such questions in any reference request.

[meekmeek]

http://www.totaljobs.com/careers-advice/money-and-legal/references

employers DO NOT HAVE to give any reference - but in the times they actually do give a reference the contents do have to be accurate and honest

but even with a admitance of guilt the OP did not get to the disciplinary stage to actually get sacked for actions thus timing the resignation in the OP's favour for damage limitation

 

to avoid possibilities of arguments a number of employers would in cases of negative cases just stick to the length of employment and absence amount as a reference giving no details either positive or negative to future employers

 

this has been known to happen to avoid times where ex employees would accuse the ex employer of preventing the person seeking new employment due to reference which is not a employment law but a civil rights law - the right to work[hard to win in this case but a general rule of employers is to say nothing that could cost them later even if its the truth]

 

so again for damage limitation they would stick to the minimal

[my ex-employer has this stated in contract that no matter what[good bad or ugly] the reference they give will simply state length of employment and absenses]

 

Hi, I will not give any bs here I need some genuine advice on if I can do anything about a reference/resignation.

 

I was suspended due to alleged gross misconduct, I admitted my guilt and gave the reasons why it happened in my investigatory interview. I also offered to resign with immediate effect if they would accept it. (the interview was with my security department). They documented the whole meeting as you would expect and then decided to accept my resignation,

did the security manager verbally accept you letter as in 'thank you ill pass this on to HR' OR write a letter saying the company accepts termination with immediate effect which was signed by the security manager?

which I was delighted about as I thought I would be able to get a basic reference just stating dates of employment, this was Tuesday.

 

I got a letter this morning from my line manager (who was not in the meeting) stating that I was in breach of contract as I resigned with immediate effect and I supposed to give 4 weeks notice and therefore if I do not reconsider my resignation he will terminate my contract as resignation under suspension. Which tbh is what I was expecting before the meeting, however as the security department heard my pleas of why i commited GM and accepted my resignation(which they are authorised to do) I thought that would be the end of it.

 

Basically my line manager is now being an idiot and trying to screw me even though my resignation was accepted as immediate by the security department. Can I do anything about this??

 

Thanks for listening

 

sorry i didnt read the brackets where it said your security department have the authority to accept resignations but just to clarify do you have paperwork that shows the acceptance of immediate resignation

 

some managers do have powers to accept termination but there is a difference between recieving a resignation letter and accepting it

 

either way it is just a communication block between the line manager and the security manager and there might be procedures inplace where a security manager still needs to seek advice from upper management to formalise the acceptance

 

as i said before just go in on monday and get the security manager and line manager together - it may end up being like your watching a tennis match just sat their while the two managers discuss it between each other but the sooner its resolved the better

 

no one knows truly who has top priority over employment contracts

 

what i am trying to say is this

avoid the possibility where the security manager is allowed to accept [in the meaning of recieve] a resignation letter but not allowed to terminate a contract - just like anyone handing in a resignation letter to a receptionist who has authority to sign for receipt of resignation does not mean you contract is there fore terminated

also to avoid the harassment from line manager because he too niave and out of the loop to know what has been agreed

 

so get the two heads together and basically get them to argue it out

 

but if you have a termination letter then hand this to your line manager and inform himto discuss it with the security manager

 

leaving it be, thinking your free and clear might be the case legally but you may be still pestered and harassed by the niave manager who would rather annoy you then speak to the security department or HR purely beause he is on a ego trip- so to just end it all and get it sorted out fast for your own frustration sake visit them either with or without letters prepped and ask for a final decision in writing by end of day

 

thus ending the matter once and for all

Edited January 15, 2011 by meekmeek

[jimmySS]

Hi sorry it's been a few days, I spoke to the new line manager btw, i forgot to say my old LM moved departments therefore I have this new guy who's trying to lay down the letter of the law. Ultimately he has had no relationship with me for the past couple of years I have worked their and so has no sympathy in my circumstances, he refused to accepted my resignation and has passed it to HR as resigned under suspension. I have no written confirmation of this personally, however in my investigatory meeting the final statement was. ((blah blah my circumstances, therefore I tender my resignation with immediate affect. Signed Me. The security manager wrote. "Name" accepts this resignation. However I dont know if this makes any difference I dont have a copy of the investigatory meeting notes.

 

I'm seriously going to have problem getting a job now yes?

[SarEl]

To be seriously honest - you would always have had these problems, as we have pointed out previously. I have to admit that I was surprised when you said that the Security Manager had the authority to accept a resignation in these circumstances - other than to receipt receiving it it seemed a stretch that he could lawfully accept it. But I honestly don't think you ever had a prayer of a bland referennce from the moment that the investigation began - despite some advice to the contrary on the thread, "resigned whilst under investigation for gross misconduct" was always a very likely outcome.

 

So yes, you are likely to have problems getting a job - but to be equally blunt, you always were. Employers are not daft, and even "bland reference plus resigned and unemployed" looks dodgy - and dodgy isn't the way to impress. That said, people do get sacked or resign having done something wrong, and still get jobs. Yes, you will have to try harder, and may have to accept some "cutting of cloth" to prove yourself - but it is done and can be done. The worst thing that you can do now is compound this by lying to potential employers. OK, maybe not bear your sould at interview, but you need to ensure that before you accept a job offfer they know the truth - or a version of it that is as good as true. Do not assume it won't come out - it does, and it does often. So start thinking about how you can show this is a better, if not good light. Where there reasons for what you did, can you show that you have learned something positive? Can you get some voluntary work in the meantime to show that you are not going to crawl into a hole and feel sorry for yourself? People can and do make stupid mistakes, and there are still employers out there who are willing to listen and give people a second chance. There are also some who won't, so I'm not trying to delude you into thinking it will be easy. But it can be done.