Newbie Needs Help RE: Marston Bailiff Bullies

[Newbielou]

Hi,

 

This is my first ever post on any Forum, so forgive me if I ramble!

 

Here goes.......

 

I had an outstanding Parking fine £110.00 as did my husband £110.00 (2 peas and all that - certainly applies).

 

I paid both PCN's directly to our local council via the online payment service on 19th Jan 2011, the payment cleared 5 days later on the 24th Jan 2011.

 

On the 25th Jan 2011 we both received a 'hand delivered letter' from a Marston Bailiff.

The form's didn’t have any details other than a reference number - which meant little to me as they do not the council's FD numbers as a reference (That would be too easy) so as I was so shocked to return home from work to a FINAL NOTICE for a £374.16 debt I knew nothing about (In my name) as well as the same amount in my husband’s name (A hand written message stating that a warrant had been issued to sieze my husbands car!! - I called the number and spoke to the bailiff.

 

I asked what debts we were both being chased for and he gave me the FD numbers for the Fines I had paid to the council the previous week (I didn't know about the long turn around for internet payments at the time). I explained that both fines had in fact been paid giving him the date paid and the payment reference numbers along with my personal mobile number should he need to speak to me once he had clarified with 'his' office that the fines had been paid.

 

No call from the bailiff came.

 

However my husband returned home from work 9 days later (03rd Feb 2011) to 2 further 'hand delivered' letters stating we both owed £426.29 and if immediate payment was not received a further £288.00 would be added on to each account making a total of £714.29 each, he obviously called the bailiff only to be told that the council had returned the payments I had made on 19th Jan - (I checked my bank account and no refund had been issued) he went on to tell my husband that he would be coming to our house to remove goods up to the value of the outstanding debts later that evening (He actually never came - I am terrified he could turn up over the weekend / I will be at home alone whilst my husband is at work!!).

 

However I called the council this morning to confirm that both fines had been paid and was horrified and upset to find that in fact the council had issued 2 cheques for the amounts paid to them that were posted out to me yesterday. Unfortunately as the fines were paid too late the fines had already been referred to

Marston’s.

 

The lady at the council was very helpful and gave me the number for Marston’s - however Marston's will not discuss anything with anyone they only take payments and told me to speak to the bailiff directly!!!

I am afraid to call him as he was rather arrogant and aggressive on the phone to my husband!

 

I am now at a total loss as to what to do next as it was a struggle to pay the fines in the first place - total £220.00!!!

 

Thank you for taking the time to read my lengthy dilemma! Any Advice would be very much appreciated!?

Em x

Edited February 4, 2011 by Newbielou

[ploddertom]

Was it the fines were paid too late or is that they are saying they cleared too late ie are they saying it had to be paid by clear funds by xxx date.

 

PT

[Newbielou]

Hi Ploddertom,

 

Thank you for your reply.

 

The lady from the council (the one I spoke to on Friday Morning) informed me that both fines should have been paid by 05th Jan - this was the day the debt's were passed to MARSTON GROUP (Unfortunately I had to wait for pay day in order to pay the fines in the first place) this is why the Council could'nt help and have returned my payments and instructed me to pay Marston's directly.

 

Many Thanks,

Em x

[ploddertom]

Did you have prior knowledge of the fines and did you receive all the relevant notices prior to it being handed to the Bailiffs?

 

PT

[hallowitch]

Have a read of this thread the op was in the same position as you as in he paid the parking ticket a few days late the diffrence being the council did not try to return payment

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?292665-Newlyn-amp-Council-Issues-over-charging-for-no-visit-and-paid-parking-ticket.

[Newbielou]

Hi Ploddertom,

Again thank you for taking the time to reply.

I received the Order for Recovery of Unpaid Penalty Charge (Form TE3) stating that it would be going to the Traffic Enforcement Centre at Northampton County Court on 14/12/2010 - on this form it states to pay Sheffield City Council Direct.

I read it and put it out of sight until after Christmas and as soon as I was paid in January paid both fines on the Council's online service.

I only know that the fines had been sent to the Marston group when I received the 'hand delivered' letters and spoke to the council.

Is it legal for the bailiff to charge £264.16 to hand deliver a letter? and then a further £52.13 9 days later to deliver another letter (Baring in mind I contacted him immediately after receiving the first letters explaining that both the fines had been paid - giving him my mobile number to call me if there were any problems).

Does he really have the 'power' to come to our house and remove our belongings - charging us another £288.00 for the privilege?? - Sorry for so many questions but I am panicking!!

Many Thanks,

Em x

[ploddertom]

These matters are not my strong point but from what you say about their charges it sounds as if they are also trying to say they sent you a letter before they visited, this would have been prior to 4 January - this is contrary to what the Council are saying however. It will pay to get a breakdown complete with dates for this. I note you say the PCN was for £110 each did you not get a chance to pay the discounted rate at all?

 

PT

[Newbielou]

Hi PT,

 

I did indeed have the reduced payment offer but at the time of the offence 10/2009 £35.00 (If paid before 14 days / £70.00 after 14 days, however my finances were worse then (I was made redundant so didn't work for over a month, then played catch up once I re-started work) than they are now! and as is usual for many people in this current climate my priorities were and still are Mortgage / Couincil Tax / Utilities etc etc etc.

 

I recieved the Charge Certificate at the end of January 2010 when the fine had risen to £105.00 - again I couldn't afford to pay it at that point!

 

The next notification was th TE3 in December 2010 by now the fine had risen to £110.00 which is the one I paid in January - I have no problem with having to pay the £110.00.

 

The only correspondance I have had with Marston's is the hand written letter dated the 25th Jan and it's the huge charges from Marston's that i'm worried about as we have no way of getting this kind of money together!?

 

Thanks again,

 

Em x

[Newbielou]

Thank you for the thread Hallowitch, very much appreciated.

Em x

[Tingy]

Last post a bit cryptic - do you still need help with this or not?

[Newbielou]

Yes please - I have read so much stuff on here which is very helpful but I am now rather confused, what I really need to know is:-

 

Is it legal for the bailiff to charge £264.16 to hand deliver a letter? and then a further £52.13 9 days later to deliver another letter (Baring in mind I contacted him immediately after receiving the first letters explaining that both the fines had been paid - giving him my mobile number to call me if there were any problems).

 

Does he really have the 'power' to come to our house and remove our belongings - charging us another £288.00 for the privilege?? - Sorry for so many questions but I am panicking!!

 

Any pointers as to what to next would be very much appreciated!?

 

Many Thanks,

 

Em x

[Tingy]

Hi Em,

 

Right, let's dispel myths about fees first. This is what they are entitled to charge:

 

Road Traffic (parking penalties)

 

Fees

 

For preparing and sending a letter advising the client that a warrant is with bailiff and requesting the sum due -----------------------------------------£11.20

 

For levying distress where the sum due is not more than £100----- £28.00

For levying distress where the sum due is more than £100 ---------28% on the first £200 and 5.5% on any sum over £200.

 

For attending to levy distress but where no levy is made------------ Reasonable costs, but not more than the fees that could be charged if a levy were made.

 

The fee for sending a letter to the debtor can be charged only if the letter is sent before a first visit is made.

 

Bailiffs are allowed to charge the fees for a maximum of three visits only.

 

Charges

 

Walking possession -------------------------------55p each day for the first 14 days and 5p a day after that.

Valuation ---------------------------------------- Reasonable fees, charges and expenses of the broker.

Removing goods or attending to remove goods where no goods are removed -Reasonable costs and charges.

Sale of goods ----------------15% of the proceeds of sale if the sale is held on auctioneer's premises to cover the auctioneers commission and out-of-pocket expenses, plus the reasonable cost of advertising, removal and storage.

 

OR

 

7.5% of the proceeds of sale where the sale is held on the debtor's premises to cover the auctioneer's commission, plus out-of-pocket expenses actually and reasonably incurred.

 

 

The second important thing to understand here is that whatever they say, the council cannot just wash their hands of you and throw you to the bailiffs. The council employ the bailiffs and so are what is legally termed "vicariously liable" for their conduct and charges. This basically means if the bailiffs do something wrong, the council are equally culpable with the bailiffs.

 

Third thing, what do you need to do?

i) Write a letter to the Chief Executive Officer of your local council. Head it FORMAL COMPLAINT

ii) Copy the letter to the Complaints Department (thus ensuring it is registered as a formal complaint)

iii) Explain everything VERY clearly to the CEO. Ensure you mention that you know the council are vicariously liable with the bailiffs and that you have not only already paid the fine once, but the council cashed the cheque, then passed the debt to their appointed bailiffs.

iv) Set out the fees charged and copy and paste what they are lawfully allowed to charge.

v) State the council's appointed bailiffs appear to be totally disregarding the permitted chareable fees, thus laying the council open to serious litigation proceedings. Also point out their lies to you in terms of phoning you back and anything else you can think of where they have been unreasonable. Include dates etc... if possible.

vi) Ask, given the special circumstances, if they would please call off the bailiffs immediately while they investigate your complaint, and ask for this in writing (or e-mail).

vii) State that given the circumstances, you agree you were late paying the fine, but equally they have to agree that the bailiffs behaviour and charges have been totally unlawful. You feel therefore that a fair resolution to your complaint would be that you pay the original debt again and that this be the end of the issue. Ask for written confirmation.

 

Hopefully this should resolve things for you, but if it doesn't let me know and we'll start getting nasty. In the meantime, if there's any help you want, just shout!

[Newbielou]

Hi Tingy,

I can't thank you enough for your post, I am currently drafting the letter to the Chief Executive Officer of Sheffield city council.

Do I need to write to Marston's or contact the bailiff to inform them of my intensions?

With regards to the fee's thank you for some clear information - I think I can make sense of the charges that I am liable for - from the details you have given me but may need a little more help?

For the £110.00 debt he is chasing I understand that he can charge me (28%) - £30.80 and for the second visit a further (28%) - £30.80?

I haven’t received a letter informing me that the debt had been passed to a bailiff (would this mean the £11.20 cannot be charged?)

Also I don't really understand what a Walking possession is?

Thank you for your help and patients,

Em x

[hallowitch]

I haven’t received a letter informing me that the debt had been passed to a bailiff (would this mean the £11.20 cannot be charged?)

 

as far as I'm aware if you don't receive this letter your bailiff fees are nil

personally i would go with the link i sent you and fill in the forms

from your post the parking tickets were paid before seizure

[Tingy]

Morning Em,

 

Hope you're well!

 

I don't know what link Hallowitch has sent you, so I'm at a disadvantage here. However I do know HW is extremely good, so if you'd prefer I doubt you'll go far wrong following her advice.

 

Ultimately we're aiming for the same thing in a different way I think which is that you pay the parking fine and nothing else.

 

Working from my post, don't tell the bailiffs anything at all. If they get wind of the fact you're fighting them they'll probably get worse which you don't need.

 

As far as their fees are concerned, by all means work them out for yourself, but in the letter I'd just state here are a list of fees they can lawfully charge. This is what they have charged £xxx.xx As you can see there is a big difference between what they are trying to charge and what they can lawfully charge. As they are acting as your representatives this is obviously leaving the council wide open to litigation which I'm sure we both want to avoid.

 

Let him do the maths for himself. Do however point out that you never received a letter informing you that the debt had been passed to bailiffs, so this is a further £11.20 of unlawful charges. Also point out that no walking possession has taken place as they have never entered your property, so if they have charged this it is yet another unlawful charge.

 

Explain that Marstons refuse point blank to discuss your account with you, give you any information about it and are just very agressive and demand full payment each time you talk to them. Again this goes totally against the National Standards for Enforcement Agents which state (pick and choose as appropriate):

 

Professionalism and conduct of the enforcement agent

 

 

• Enforcement agents should always produce relevant identification on request, such as a badge or ID card, together with a written authorisation to act on behalf of the creditor.
  
• Enforcement agents must act within the law at all times, including all defined legislation and observe all health and safety requirements in carrying out enforcement. They must maintain strict client confidentiality and comply with Data Protection legislation and, where appropriate the Freedom of Information Act.
  
• Enforcement agents, for the purpose of distress or execution shall, without the use of unlawful force, gain access to the goods. The enforcement agent will produce an inventory of the goods seized and leave it with the debtor, or at the premises, with any other documents that are required by regulations or statute.
  
• Enforcement agents must carry out their duties in a professional, calm and dignified manner. They must dress appropriately and act with discretion and fairness.
  
• Enforcement agents must not misrepresent their powers, qualifications, capacities, experience or abilities.
  
• Enforcement agents must not discriminate unfairly on any grounds including those of age, disability, ethnicity, gender, race, religion or sexual orientation.
  
• In circumstances where the enforcement agency requires it, and always where there have been previous acts of, or threats of violence by a debtor, a risk assessment should be undertaken prior to the enforcement agent attending a debtor's premises.
  

If there's anything else you want I'm in and out all day, so you should never have to wait long for a reply.

 

As I say I don't know what Hallowitch has sent you, but I do know that she is very good, so it is entirely up to you which route you take. I do know that whichever of us you go with we'll stick with you right the way through this, and I'm sure she'll say the same about me.

 

If you need any more help, just shout.

 

Hi Tingy,

 

I can't thank you enough for your post, I am currently drafting the letter to the Chief Executive Officer of Sheffield city council.

 

Do I need to write to Marston's or contact the bailiff to inform them of my intensions?

 

With regards to the fee's thank you for some clear information - I think I can make sense of the charges that I am liable for - from the details you have given me but may need a little more help?

 

For the £110.00 debt he is chasing I understand that he can charge me (28%) - £30.80 and for the second visit a further (28%) - £30.80?

 

I haven’t received a letter informing me that the debt had been passed to a bailiff (would this mean the £11.20 cannot be charged?)

 

Also I don't really understand what a Walking possession is?

 

Thank you for your help and patients,

 

Em x

[hallowitch]

Tingy read post 5 i put a link to a thread with information that tomtubby posted the only difference i can see is that in this Case the council concerned are trying to return the payments already made to them

[Newbielou]

Good Morning Tingy & Hollowitch,

 

Thank you so much for all of your help, it is very much appreciated.

 

You have both given me great advise so will be spending the day compiling the letters and such, knowing there are very wise and generous people out there who can help has been a great help - and has calmed me down - I'm now in fighting mode!

 

Thank you once again for your support - I will keep you posted.

 

Em x

[wonkeydonkey]

post by Tomtubby says it all ..your payment should have been seen to satisfy the debt on the day it was made and not when the Council got around to processing it.

therefore I agree with Hallowitch the bailiff fees are ZERO add to this that you have paid the debt and the Council have returned it (in order to allow the bailiff to make profit?) is just not acceptable.

[Newbielou]

Hi,

Just an update on my situation.

I sent the letter to the CEO of my local Council and copied in the complaints department, I wrote the letter to Marston's requesting a breakdown of charges alond with a screen shot for both accounts and I also filed the TE9 forms online at Northampton County Court.

So far this is the reply from the council..

......................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

Dear,

Your e-mail dated xx February 2011 has been forwarded to me for investigation and to respond.

The sequence of events in respect of each of the two cases was as follows:-

FD190184xx

Date Issued Document Issued Remarks

16 October 2009 Penalty Charge Notice PCN issued to vehicle

20 November 2009 Notice To Owner issued Requests payment of the full Penalty Charge of £70

20 January 2011 Charge Certificate Requests payment of increased amount of £105

16 November 2011 Order For Recovery Requests payment of £110 and warns that possessions may be removed and sold to pay the charge

11 January 2011 Warrant of Execution Case referred to bailiffs

FD23518xx

Date Issued Document Issued Remarks

13 October 2009 Penalty Charge Notice PCN issued to vehicle

17 November 2009 Notice To Owner issued Requests payment of the full Penalty Charge of £70

20 January 2011 Charge Certificate Requests payment of increased amount of £105

16 November 2011 Order For Recovery Requests payment of £110 and warns that possessions may be removed and sold to pay the charge

11 January 2011 Warrant of Execution Case referred to bailiffs

The Order for Recovery informs the debtor that an order has already been made by the Traffic Enforcement Centre (Northampton County Court) and that payment must be made (or a statement must be filed if you believe you have grounds for not paying the charge) by the date shown (in these cases 14 December 2010).

There are very limited grounds for filing a statement and these are detailed in the Order For Recovery document. Whilst the Order for Recovery does not specifically state that the debt will be referred to bailiffs, it does state in bold letters at the bottom of the form: -

If you do nothing your possessions may be removed and sold to pay this charge.

The Order for Recovery form is approved by the Traffic Enforcement Centre and as far as I am aware, the content is identical to those used by other local authorities.

As bailiffs costs are added to the debt, payment of the increased amount of the Penalty Charge alone is not accepted after cases have been referred to bailiffs. The deadline for payment in both these cases was given as 14 December 2010. Even so, the cases were not referred to the bailiffs until 11 January 2011, which gave an additional 27 days for payment to be made which would have avoided transfer of the debts to the bailiffs.

It is normal practice for any payments received after cases have been referred to bailiffs to be returned because of the additional bailiff costs which may have been applied to the debt.

The two refund cheques have been issued within the last few days and should arrive at the latest by early next week. The refunds showed on the Parking Services system as early as 3rd February, but the refund system requires the beneficiary of the refund to be set up on the Council’s corporate suppliers system and this can unfortunately take up to 10 days.

The following details of action taken and charges applied have been received from the bailiffs. All of the charges shown below include VAT.

FD190184xx -

PCN Received – 11 January 2011 - £110.00

1st letter sent – 12 January 2011 - £13.44

1st Visit – 25 January 2011 - £40.73

2nd Visit – 03 February 2011 - £52.13

Attendance to remove – 03 February 2011 - £210.00

3rd Visit – 16 February 2011 - £66.72

Total - £493.02

 

FD235181xx -

PCN Received 11 January 2011 - £110.00

1st letter sent – 25 January 2011 - £13.44

1st Visit – 25 January 2011 - £40.73

2nd visit – 03 February 2011 - £52.13

Attendance to remove - 03 February 2011 - £210.00

3rd visit – 16 February 2011 - £66.72

Total - £493.02

However, the bailiffs have said that as both cases are at the same address, only one Attendance To Remove charge will be made, even though both cases have had that charge added to the debt. It follows therefore that one case will be payable at £493.02 and the other will be payable at £283.02

In the light of the above sequence of events, I do not accept that there is a strong case for asking the Bailiffs to return these cases to the Council, until they have received the payments which are legitimately due and payable.

I would therefore recommend that you make contact with the bailiffs in order to settle the debts, mentioning to them that they have agreed to waive one of the Attendance To Remove fees.

I hope that the above details clarify the matter for you.

Yours sincerely,

 

 

Parking Services Manager

..................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

 

As I am sure you can understand I am devastated with this reply and do not know if there is anything else I can do? any further help would be very much appreciated.

 

Many Thanks,

Em x

[Tingy]

Hi,

 

Firstly don't panic. While what they say is correct in that it is common practice for councils not to accept payments once its been referred to bailiffs, it does NOT mean they can't accept payments. It's another of their little con tricks to make you pay more.

 

I'm actually rather taken up today with my daughter's birthday, but will have a look tomorrow and have a think as to where we take this. Was the council reply from complaints or the CEO?

 

As I say, don't worry - there's more than one way to skin a cat!

 

Tingy

 

Hi,

 

Just an update on my situation.

 

I sent the letter to the CEO of my local Council and copied in the complaints department, I wrote the letter to Marston's requesting a breakdown of charges alond with a screen shot for both accounts and I also filed the TE9 forms online at Northampton County Court.

 

So far this is the reply from the council..

......................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

Dear,

Your e-mail dated xx February 2011 has been forwarded to me for investigation and to respond.

The sequence of events in respect of each of the two cases was as follows:-

FD190184xx

Date Issued Document Issued Remarks

16 October 2009 Penalty Charge Notice PCN issued to vehicle

20 November 2009 Notice To Owner issued Requests payment of the full Penalty Charge of £70

20 January 2011 Charge Certificate Requests payment of increased amount of £105

16 November 2011 Order For Recovery Requests payment of £110 and warns that possessions may be removed and sold to pay the charge

11 January 2011 Warrant of Execution Case referred to bailiffs

FD23518xx

Date Issued Document Issued Remarks

13 October 2009 Penalty Charge Notice PCN issued to vehicle

17 November 2009 Notice To Owner issued Requests payment of the full Penalty Charge of £70

20 January 2011 Charge Certificate Requests payment of increased amount of £105

16 November 2011 Order For Recovery Requests payment of £110 and warns that possessions may be removed and sold to pay the charge

11 January 2011 Warrant of Execution Case referred to bailiffs

The Order for Recovery informs the debtor that an order has already been made by the Traffic Enforcement Centre (Northampton County Court) and that payment must be made (or a statement must be filed if you believe you have grounds for not paying the charge) by the date shown (in these cases 14 December 2010).

There are very limited grounds for filing a statement and these are detailed in the Order For Recovery document. Whilst the Order for Recovery does not specifically state that the debt will be referred to bailiffs, it does state in bold letters at the bottom of the form: -

If you do nothing your possessions may be removed and sold to pay this charge.

The Order for Recovery form is approved by the Traffic Enforcement Centre and as far as I am aware, the content is identical to those used by other local authorities.

As bailiffs costs are added to the debt, payment of the increased amount of the Penalty Charge alone is not accepted after cases have been referred to bailiffs. The deadline for payment in both these cases was given as 14 December 2010. Even so, the cases were not referred to the bailiffs until 11 January 2011, which gave an additional 27 days for payment to be made which would have avoided transfer of the debts to the bailiffs.

It is normal practice for any payments received after cases have been referred to bailiffs to be returned because of the additional bailiff costs which may have been applied to the debt.

The two refund cheques have been issued within the last few days and should arrive at the latest by early next week. The refunds showed on the Parking Services system as early as 3rd February, but the refund system requires the beneficiary of the refund to be set up on the Council’s corporate suppliers system and this can unfortunately take up to 10 days.

The following details of action taken and charges applied have been received from the bailiffs. All of the charges shown below include VAT.

FD190184xx -

 

PCN Received – 11 January 2011 - £110.00

1st letter sent – 12 January 2011 - £13.44

1st Visit – 25 January 2011 - £40.73

2nd Visit – 03 February 2011 - £52.13

Attendance to remove – 03 February 2011 - £210.00

3rd Visit – 16 February 2011 - £66.72

 

Total - £493.02

 

FD235181xx -

 

PCN Received 11 January 2011 - £110.00

1st letter sent – 25 January 2011 - £13.44

1st Visit – 25 January 2011 - £40.73

2nd visit – 03 February 2011 - £52.13

Attendance to remove - 03 February 2011 - £210.00

3rd visit – 16 February 2011 - £66.72

 

Total - £493.02

However, the bailiffs have said that as both cases are at the same address, only one Attendance To Remove charge will be made, even though both cases have had that charge added to the debt. It follows therefore that one case will be payable at £493.02 and the other will be payable at £283.02

In the light of the above sequence of events, I do not accept that there is a strong case for asking the Bailiffs to return these cases to the Council, until they have received the payments which are legitimately due and payable.

I would therefore recommend that you make contact with the bailiffs in order to settle the debts, mentioning to them that they have agreed to waive one of the Attendance To Remove fees.

I hope that the above details clarify the matter for you.

Yours sincerely,

 

 

 

Parking Services Manager

..................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

 

As I am sure you can understand I am devastated with this reply and do not know if there is anything else I can do? any further help would be very much appreciated.

 

Many Thanks,

Em x

[tomtubby]

Hi,

Just an update on my situation.

I sent the letter to the CEO of my local Council and copied in the complaints department, I wrote the letter to Marston's requesting a breakdown of charges alond with a screen shot for both accounts and I also filed the TE9 forms online at Northampton County Court.

So far this is the reply from the council..

......................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

Dear,

Your e-mail dated xx February 2011 has been forwarded to me for investigation and to respond.

The sequence of events in respect of each of the two cases was as follows:-

FD190184xx

Date Issued Document Issued Remarks

16 October 2009 Penalty Charge Notice PCN issued to vehicle

20 November 2009 Notice To Owner issued Requests payment of the full Penalty Charge of £70

20 January 2011 Charge Certificate Requests payment of increased amount of £105

16 November 2011 Order For Recovery Requests payment of £110 and warns that possessions may be removed and sold to pay the charge

11 January 2011 Warrant of Execution Case referred to bailiffs

FD23518xx

Date Issued Document Issued Remarks

13 October 2009 Penalty Charge Notice PCN issued to vehicle

17 November 2009 Notice To Owner issued Requests payment of the full Penalty Charge of £70

20 January 2011 Charge Certificate Requests payment of increased amount of £105

16 November 2011 Order For Recovery Requests payment of £110 and warns that possessions may be removed and sold to pay the charge

11 January 2011 Warrant of Execution Case referred to bailiffs

The Order for Recovery informs the debtor that an order has already been made by the Traffic Enforcement Centre (Northampton County Court) and that payment must be made (or a statement must be filed if you believe you have grounds for not paying the charge) by the date shown (in these cases 14 December 2010).

There are very limited grounds for filing a statement and these are detailed in the Order For Recovery document. Whilst the Order for Recovery does not specifically state that the debt will be referred to bailiffs, it does state in bold letters at the bottom of the form: -

If you do nothing your possessions may be removed and sold to pay this charge.

The Order for Recovery form is approved by the Traffic Enforcement Centre and as far as I am aware, the content is identical to those used by other local authorities.

As bailiffs costs are added to the debt, payment of the increased amount of the Penalty Charge alone is not accepted after cases have been referred to bailiffs. The deadline for payment in both these cases was given as 14 December 2010. Even so, the cases were not referred to the bailiffs until 11 January 2011, which gave an additional 27 days for payment to be made which would have avoided transfer of the debts to the bailiffs.

It is normal practice for any payments received after cases have been referred to bailiffs to be returned because of the additional bailiff costs which may have been applied to the debt.

The two refund cheques have been issued within the last few days and should arrive at the latest by early next week. The refunds showed on the Parking Services system as early as 3rd February, but the refund system requires the beneficiary of the refund to be set up on the Council’s corporate suppliers system and this can unfortunately take up to 10 days.

The following details of action taken and charges applied have been received from the bailiffs. All of the charges shown below include VAT.

FD190184xx -

PCN Received – 11 January 2011 - £110.00

1st letter sent – 12 January 2011 - £13.44

1st Visit – 25 January 2011 - £40.73

2nd Visit – 03 February 2011 - £52.13

Attendance to remove – 03 February 2011 - £210.00

3rd Visit – 16 February 2011 - £66.72

Total - £493.02

 

FD235181xx -

PCN Received 11 January 2011 - £110.00

1st letter sent – 25 January 2011 - £13.44

1st Visit – 25 January 2011 - £40.73

2nd visit – 03 February 2011 - £52.13

Attendance to remove - 03 February 2011 - £210.00

3rd visit – 16 February 2011 - £66.72

Total - £493.02

However, the bailiffs have said that as both cases are at the same address, only one Attendance To Remove charge will be made, even though both cases have had that charge added to the debt. It follows therefore that one case will be payable at £493.02 and the other will be payable at £283.02

In the light of the above sequence of events, I do not accept that there is a strong case for asking the Bailiffs to return these cases to the Council, until they have received the payments which are legitimately due and payable.

I would therefore recommend that you make contact with the bailiffs in order to settle the debts, mentioning to them that they have agreed to waive one of the Attendance To Remove fees.

I hope that the above details clarify the matter for you.

Yours sincerely,

 

 

Parking Services Manager

..................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

 

As I am sure you can understand I am devastated with this reply and do not know if there is anything else I can do? any further help would be very much appreciated.

 

Many Thanks,

Em x

 

I am in a rush today so I can respond in depth until later.

 

This local authority would appear to be doing what it can to ensure that their bailiffs gain financially from this.

 

The Secretary of State issued their Operational Guidance to Local Authorities under the Traffic Management Act 2004 and this is like the parking departments "bible".

 

It would appear that this local authority need to start reading it properly and paying attention to the following paragraph:

 

10.20 A PCN is deemed ‘paid’ as soon as the payment arrives at any payment office belonging to the enforcement authority that issued the PCN. Whether this is the parking payment office or another payment office, the enforcement authority should promptly close the case.

 

An authority’s systems should accurately record the day on which it receives payments so that no further enforcement action is taken.

 

The Warrant was passed to the bailiff on 11th January 2011. To allow for posting of an initial letter and for payment to be received, the bailiff should not have visited you until at least the 25th January and in fact that has been confirmed above.

 

Therefore it is CLEAR from the Operational Guidance that you payment was deemed to have been made on 19th January which is a week BEFORE a visit could have been made.

 

To be fair, I would say that you should need to pay £13.16 which is the letter fee plus VAT .

 

You might wish to make your council aware of the above and remind them that you have therefore "tendered" payment BEFORE seizure and the bailiff cannot now use the warrant to enforce his fees.

 

Finally, as you had paid, you have grounds to file and Out of Time Application using ground number 4 (PCN Paid).

 

If you have any queries, please post back.

[Newbielou]

Hi Tingy,

 

Thank you for your reply, I hope you enjoy your daughters birthday!.

 

Many Thanks & Kind Regards,

Em x

[Newbielou]

Hi Tomtubby,

Thank you for your reply, I am a little confused over if a levy has been made as the bailiff has only been to our home when we were out at work therefore has not been inside our property? Is it correct that if no levy has been made they cannot charge the £210.00 Fee for the attendance to remove?

Also the person from the council who has replied (Not the CEO) has indicated that the £210.00 fee was applied on the visit the bailiff made on 03/02/2011, however the bailiff has clearly charged this amount on his first visit - 25/02/2011?

With regards to the first letter fee £13.44 is this for the first letter - hand delivered on 25/01/2011? this is the first contact we have received from Marston and the amount demanded was £374.16 (I believe this amount has been arrived by - the fine £110.00 / the first letter fee £13.44 and the £210.00 attendance to remove fee and the 2nd letter fee of £40.73 - we have only relieved 1 letter so are they able to charge for 2 letters????).

My annoyance is that I don't feel the person (from the council) who has replied has fully understood my complaint as the main point of my complaint is that Marston have refused to speak to me regarding the situation and they just demand the full payment is made immediately without any explanation - I strongly feel that the second visit was completely unnecessary as I had contacted the bailiff on his mobile and told him that both fines had been paid - he had my mobile number in order to speak to me once he had spoken to his office to confirm the fines had been paid, however he chose not to call me and instead made the second visit (This feels like he has purposely chosen to apply further fee's and the council are condoning this action).

My apologies for repeating details but I feel a little out of my depth!!

Any help is very much appreciated.

Many Thanks & Kind Regards,

Em x

[Newbielou]

Hi,

 

Can anyone confirm if a levy has been made if the bailiff has never entered my property?

 

Any help would be very much appreciated.

 

Regards,

 

Em x

[ploddertom]

Hi,

 

Can anyone confirm if a levy has been made if the bailiff has never entered my property? He can levy on goods outside, some have even levied on planters, a doormat or cars. He cannot peer through your windows and do one, he has to gain entry.

 

Any help would be very much appreciated.

 

Regards,

 

Em x

 

PT