Apex Credit Management - help please

[chillman]

Hi, new to the forum, found some responses after searching google due to my current situation. I am a little confused as to what to do and would really appreciate any help or advice please.

 

I have received a letter from Apex in November 2010 stating that they would be taking over the collection of an outstanding loan from Santander but I should continue to make payments to Chase Saunders until further contact has been made. Chase Saunders I had never heard of as I had been continuing to pay Santander monthly. I originally couldnt make the payments that were agreed at the start of the loan and went with a company called Debt Movers - I was in a bad place at the time and it turns out they weren't helping my situation at all as they paid a ridiculous amount like £15 to Santander out of my payment etc, anyway I got rid of them and got in contact with Santander who wouldnt accept my offer of £100 pcm to them and that it was being sold to a 3rd party to deal with....wouldn't say who. (Sorry for the rambling) So I continue to make payments to them over the phone until November when they said that I could no longer do this and it had to be a cheque, which would then get passed to the 3rd party... so I've been sending in my cheques- which have been cashed etc. Back to the present day, Apex have been calling and not leaving messages apparently (I don't answer witheld no's) I answered one call however last week and was told that they wanted the payment for the loan from Santander, or if I couldn't afford it in full to arrange a payment plan - I asked how much the outstanding was and they said that there had not been a payment on the loan since November 2010!! This is wrong!!... Apex then stated that they would speak to Santander as it may be taking time for the cheques to clear - ?? they've all been cleared as far as my bank account shows!... So they also found out when my pay day was and said that I will need to ring them on my pay day and make my first payment.

 

Please help me - I'm at a loss of what to do, whether they are dealing with it - or what could be going on.

[PGH7447]

Ok stop right there. in the first instance send a sar to satansbank demanding all statements and agreements for this account.

 

was there any ppi taken out when you took the loan out, .

 

send apex a cca request to shut them up for now

 

the sar costs £10 an should be sent recorded, satansbank have 40 days to comply

 

the cca cost £1 postal order, again send recorded apex have 12+2 days to comply

 

dont pay apex anything, also while you are waiting get in touch with satansbank and demand to know where the last payments have gone due to the fact that the dca has stated that no payments have been recieved since the date they qwuoted and that you think a case of fraud may have been commited by said bank, see what the fools say to that

 

the sar and cca can be found in the debt collection library

[chillman]

Thank you for your reply. No, there is no PPI with the loan. (that I'm aware of - can't find anything about it on any of my paperwork). I had previously asked for an up to date statement of all payments made since October 2010 to the loan (as I have doubts that Debt Movers actually even paid what they said), I sent this request with my cheque..... funnily enough they cashed the cheque but I've not received anything since Oct 2010 . I will try with the SAR and hope that helps!

I definitely won't make any payment until I'm sure what is going on.

I had read somewhere that if a DCA doesn't have the original loan agreement they cannot legally collect the money, if that's the case what happens to the debt?

Edited February 21, 2011 by chillman

[FORMISTER]

If no enforcable agreement can be produced then the debt remains unenforcable in the court of law. This means that they cannot seek judgement against you. Although the debt remains unenforcable you still owe the debt. They can still ask you to pay the debt and continue to update your credit file, but you cannot legally be made to pay the debt until they produce an enforcable agreement

[FORMISTER]

CCA letter http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/content.php?414-CCA-request-letter.

SAR letter http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/content.php?417-A-Subject-Access-Request-for

 

Make sure you retain proof of postage for both. Do not sign the letters, print

[chillman]

Thanks I wil send both today, just a quick question though (sorry if it's a silly one), on the CCA, with the reference, do I put the reference that Apex have given me or the account number of the loan with Santander?

[Bazooka Boo]

I would put the reference number perspex used.

[ashmk]

Small change of subject but are you sure it is Apex that calls you with a withheld number?

I only ask because Apex call my house twice a day everyday and is never withheld, however the number has been blocked for months and months so my phone never rings when they call.

I only know they call because I check the log from time to time and they are as regular as clockwork calling me. Morons.

 

Anyway just thought I'd bring that up that it might not be Apex as I've never seen them withhold a number.

 

This is the number they call me on

http://www.callid.org/Phone-Number/01789775899/

[chillman]

Hi, I'm not certain that it's them but I seem to get calls from their number, and then when I don't answer its usually followed by another call with private number so thought maybe its them trying to be clever and get me to answer!... they called yesterday and left a voicemail stating it was urgent I get in touch with them before 8pm to prevent further action being taken on my account!...bearing in mind I sent off the CCA request yesterday they called again today but didnt leave a message. I will not speak to them until I have written clarification on where I stand.

 

This site has been useful, and thank you all for your helpful replies, I will keep you updated with what happens.....

[Bazooka Boo]

It is evident that their is nothing "urgent" or that the "world will cave in" simply because some fool likes to leave messages on you personal number saying as such!

 

Like the little child in the playground who likes to wind others up, if you ignore them, they will either disappear and grow up, or their guardian will tell them to stop being so immature.

There is nothing they can do, apart from play on your lack of knowledge, ignore their childish missives.

[chillman]

Hey, so - I get home today and have a letter dated 22nd Feb from Apex... "We have not received your payment and your ac**** has fallen into default" LOL...

Just tracked my CCA - they've signed for it yesterday morning.... with the 12 + 2 days, is that working days? - and is that from the date they've signed for it?

I'm going to print off their signature tomorrow at work as a record.

[Bazooka Boo]

Yes yes & yes.

 

As you sent it recorded delivery you know when they received it, so it is 12 'working' days from the day 'after' they received it, so if they received it yesterday, today will be day one, 11 more 'working' days to go!

 

Do nothing further until they have either sent you your request, OR they have failed to comply within the time period.

[chillman]

Hey all. Just an update for you, received a recorded delivery today from Apex stating the following:

 

" Further to your letter dated 22 February 2011, the contents have been noted. Apex Credit Management are not the data holding branch and are therfore not obliged to supply the data you have requested, this information should be requested from our clients. As a gesture of good will I have contacted our cliens to obtain documentation, however our clients are unable to supply the data in the time-frame remaining. I have today closed your account with ourselves and returned your file back to Santander UK plc. Please contact our client directly for a copy of your credit agreement. "

 

Signed by admin department.

 

So - what does this mean - were Apex put off by the fact I wanted clarification? - Do I just wait and hear from Santander or for the CCA from them & SAR?

I find it a bit odd that they send me a letter stating I've defaulted one day and close my account the next?... small victory perhaps?!

[PGH7447]

It means APEX dont want to get involved and that they have sent the account back to satansbank, keep their letter safe and wait for the next thrilling installment which should come from satansbank themselves

[Bazooka Boo]

"As a gesture of goodwill...!" Don't you mean "As it is our job to do so"

 

Regardless, you have made a legal request for that information which sets out strict guideline in which they should respond, once they are out of time (12 working days from receipt of your request) Then send them (Satan's bank) the account in dispute letter, then they are under no illusion that you know your consumer rights.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/content.php?436-Failure-to-provide-a-copy-of-the-agreement-within-the-prescribed-timescale.

[chillman]

Thanks Bazooka Boo, please forgive my stupidity but when do I count the 12 working days from for Santander? - the date of Apex's letter when they state that they have passed the request on? - if so they had already stated that they can't complete the request in the time remaining, so if I send the dispute letter do I enclose a copy of Apex's letter??

 

Also, the address that they put in the above letter to me for Satans Bank is I believe the collections & recoveries dept - not the UK Head Office @ Triton Sq which I sent the SAR to - does this hinder me in any way?? Argh wich I'd never got myself into this mess, I feel all up in the air not knowing what is going on!!

[Bazooka Boo]

From the day 'after' they received your request count 12 working days, when they are out of time you can send the 'failed' letter disputing the account. It matters not that they have already stated that they will be unable to satisfy your request in the remaining time, they know the rules.

 

Apex are working on behalf of satans bank, so they should have passed your request over in a timely fashion, it is not for you to worry about.

The dispute letter will go to whoever is demanding payment from you, so in this case it will be Apex, again it is up to them to forward this on to their client.

 

Don't worry about the difference in addresses, one department will deal with SAR's and the other will deal with collections, so don't worry.

[chillman]

Afternoon all, the last day for me to have received the CCA was yesterday.... not heard squat from Satansbank...they have cashed my cheque for the SAR now though......with regard to the failure of apex to provide the CCA letter, do I still send that to apex themselves? - as they have seemingly "closed my account"... just unsure as the wording on the template would not apply if I sent to Satansbank themselves? I can't believe that they haven't even got in touch to confirm they are dealing with my SAR...surely they have a protocol to follow which would keep me in the loop a little??... hmmm then again maybe not...!

 

Hope you are all enjoying the sunshine!!

[Bazooka Boo]

Yes failure letter goes to whoever you sent your CCA request to, if it comes winging it's way back to you, with a note informing you they are no longer dealing with your case, not to worry, as the next fool who is instructed to collect this lemon, can be told that it is in serious dispute with the first muppet, and they should pass the lemon back to the OC.

[chillman]

Right, I have had contact from santander....sent me a reply to my SAR cover letter stating "The attached covers the data held about unsecured loan quoted and is that which you are entitled to under the DPA. Historical information can only be retained if there is a legitimate reason for processing the data in accordance with the rights of an individual. Therefore due to the time elapsed, some of the original account records will have been destroyed in line with our retention policy. Please be advised that the statement of account has been sent in a separate letter, directly to your home address."

What has been enclosed is: the original credit agreement, and a load of screenshots from their database with no explanation of what it means.

 

There are no copies of any correspondence with the 3rd party I was dealing with my debt through at the start of 2010, and nothing else, not even any copies of letters exchanged between Santander & apex?..

 

No statements have yet been received by me since this arrived on 16thMarch. I have also not heard any more from Apex....

 

I still don't want to send a payment to santander until I have an up to date statement and I know whats going on...

 

Is there anything else that they should have sent me or do I now just sit and wait for the rest of the info to come??

 

Thank you..

[Bazooka Boo]

Now that has me confused?

 

This is a bank that is a few years old in the UK, and they are already saying they don't have documentation to prove this debt or for the life of the account??

 

That sounds like to me they are admitting that they have fallen foul to numerous laws and legislation acts, not least of all the money laundering act!

 

I would not be at all happy with that response, IMO I would send them a letter before action, giving them a further 14 days in which to comply with your SAR or you will pass your complaint over to the ICO for investigation.

[chillman]

Second installment of the "SAR" - received the statement from them - showing that there has been no payment since September 2010! - This is not the case! I checked my online account - which shows that the cheques that I sent (following rejected online payment after my call asking why, they advised that the debt had been passed on and I would need to send a cheque to them which would be passed on to the company - until I heard from them) These cheques have all been cashed by Santander but are not shown on the statement!! ARGH!

 

I am also not happy with the information that they supplied, as I stated above, there is no evidence of any communication betwen Debt Movers who I went through for a while and Santander themselves and none between santander and any other company regarding my account! The end of the statement shows the outstanding amount as 3,645 however the "loan balance" is 5,483? - Is this due to interest do you think? - should they have been adding this even though I made them aware of my situation time and time again???

 

I know I need to write to them regarding the statement, missing cheque payments and the rest of the "SAR" info that they have supplied but I am at a loss as to how to word it, and I am reluctant to call them as each time I have called I have felt very intimidated an patronised. It seems to be me doing all the chasing on this and they have not been helpful at all. It really is stressing me out!

 

Help definitely needed please!

[chillman]

Further letter this morning....has made me chuckle I have to say.... from Barclaycard..."refer to your request for information under section 78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. As no sum is, or will or may become payable under your credit agreement, Seection 78(3) of the Act provides that we are not obliged to provide you with the documents and information you seek. We therefore enclose your Section 78 request (together with the payment received) by way of return." - enclosed my letter to Apex account in dispute letter hand written note on top stating my ref and Santander closed at Apex....... very bizarre as I don't have any accounts let alone debt with Barclaycard!....what on earth are apex doing?! LOL

[Bazooka Boo]

Give this a bump on monday when I will be better to advise, been in London all day, and shattered, covered in paint & smell of smoke!

[chillman]

Hi Bazooka, hope you've recovered over the weekend! Thanks for taking the time to look at my thread, any help greatly appreciated!