Bailiffs trying to levy on vehicle i use for self employment

[Capital_Con]

Hi all, advice greatly appreciated

 

I had an account with Jacobs Bailiffs where i had foolishly let them into my property and they levied on goods in the house. I have since paid this account off in July this year. But before this was paid off i had also recieved a badly scribbled note through the door saying i owed from the previous year and stating they had levied on my vehicle that was parked outside the property, i rang the bailiff and told him that the vehicle was used for my business and he said that the levy would be removed. I also told him i disputed the new claim of council tax owed and would take it up with the local authority. After a break up from my partner and a house move i never did get round to contacting the local authority about this matter.

About 2 weeks ago (almost 1 year from when they had levied on the vehicle and after the previous account had been paid off) i recieve notification the bailiffs were coming to my new address to levy on the vehicle as they had "out of a gesture of goodwill, included this account with my new one and would allow me to carry on making regular payments at £120 a month" whereas before i was paying £40 a month. I immediatley wrote to them and told them i use the vehicle solely for business purposes and it was an unlawful levy and that because my circumstances had changed i offered to pay at a rate of £20 a month.

I recieved a letter today asking for me to send a copy of my insurance document and that my offer of £20 was refused and stuck by there demand for £120 first installment to be paid in 3 days time.

 

Firstly i have checked the insurance document which states its for Business and social domestic pleasure, i have a feeling that because it includes "social and domestic pleasure" they will say that its not solely used for business even though it is, can you even get an insurance document solely for business??

 

Secondly there is no way on earth i can afford to pay £120 month so how will we end up coming to an agreement?

 

Sorry to waffle on but i really wanted to give as much detail as i could!

 

Help greatly appreciated

[ploddertom]

Have you checked with the Council to see how many Liability Orders you have, when they were obtained, what period of time they cover, how much each one is, how much is still outstanding, when they passed them to the Bailiffs. Do NOT believe the Bailiff's version.

 

As for the bailiff you need to send off for a breakdown of their fees incl any old accounts you may have had. Send the request initially by email with a copy sent by post.

 

As for your vehicle, is it car or van, is it signwritten, may I also ask what your occupation is?

 

PT

[Capital_Con]

Hi, no i haven't asked the council anything as i knew i owed the money and foolishly thought the amount would be the same when it was transferred to the bailiffs. I will contact the council tomorrow regarding this.

 

I'll also draught up an email asking for fee's etc from bailiff but what use is the fee's from my old account as that is now cleared?

 

The vehicle is a van and no it isn't sign written. I am a self employed builder, and obviously the vehicle is essential to my line of work

 

Many thanks for your reply its appreciated

[wonkeydonkey]

I'll also draught up an email asking for fee's etc from bailiff but what use is the fee's from my old account as that is now cleared?

It is highly likely you have been charged illegal fees on the old accounts and you can reclaim them if that is the case

 

WD

[Capital_Con]

Now that'd be a bonus but firstly i want to get this account sorted before they try and take my van! Obviously if they have included any illegal fee's i look forward to telling them so!

 

Thanks for the reply

[wonkeydonkey]

Hi

Before you can move forward with this you must go backwards, you need to gather all the information together.

Start by getting the answers to the Q's as PT post#2 then send for a breakdown of all fees past and present using the templates below (adapt to your needs)

 

You will find the Council have not even been made aware of your proposal to make payments at £20pcm, please do not have any further contact with the bailiff, his office, grandmother or aunt unless it is in writing or if by phone, recorded.

It would normally be suggested that you start to pay the Council direct making use of their online payment system but, as you have no idea how much is owed to how many LO's this will prove difficult. Once you have the info from the Council (get a reference no for the account in question) this is the way forward for you, email the Council telling them you are awaiting for info and evidence to the charges the bailiffs have applied to the account, suggest that you will continue to make payments of £xxxpcm to them while the matter is being investigated as the bailiff is refusing to accept payments that are affordable and sustainable by you, ask that they place enforcement on hold until then.

 

Name

Address

bailiff Ref: Account 's 1234/567 etc: Council Ref No: 8910/11etc:

Date

 

Dear Sir,

With reference to the above account please provide me with a breakdown of all fees charged and payments made for the above account (s)

This includes:

a - the time & date of any Bailiff action that incurred a Fee.

b - The reason for the fee.

c - The name(s) of the Bailiff(s) that attended on each occasion a Fee was charged.

d - The name(s) of the Court(s) the Bailiff(s) was/were certificated at.

e - The date of the Certification.

 

 

This is not a Subject access request under the Data Protection Act S7 1998 so does not incur a fee of £10.

The National Standards for Enforcement Agents state that if a written request is made an itemised account of fees will be provided.

Please provide the information requested within 14 days of this E-mail /recorded delivery letter

Yours faithfully

Ripped off customer"

[Capital_Con]

Thats excellent, i am off work tomorrow so will be doing all of whats needed while im off.

 

Again, many thanks for your help

[tomtubby]

It is VITAL that you first obtain clarification from the LOCAL AUTHORITY and NOT the bailiff company of the amount of the previous Liability Order and charges applied to your account.

 

In fact, so many people are now asking for precise details of all charges that had be applied to accounts that have seen been paid in full. If the charges were incorrect on old accounts, then the LOCAL AUTHORITY must repay you !!!!

[Capital_Con]

Hi guys an update:

 

I gathered all the information from my local council and the bailiffs and is as follows:

 

The liability order was for £596.31 with £271.48 having been paid.

 

Jacobs charges are as follows:

 

Jul 29th 2010 Debt - £596.31

Aug 11 2010 Visit fee 1 - £24.50

Aug 12th 2010 Visit fee 2 - £18.00

Aug 20th 2010 Sch 5 Head H £24.50

Aug 20th 2010 Levy fee £50.00

 

I ha to send Jacobs a copy of my motor insurance to prove the van was used for business which i did early December and heard nothing back until Friday when a bailiff turned up (the van was outside the property) and put a letter through the door with a "REMOVAL 48 HOURS" letter through the door and a new bill of £823.31!! I rang him immediatley (yes i know i shouldn't of but i panicked) and told him i had sent the requested documents to head office in December but he told me rather bluntly to pay up or the van WILL be taken!!

 

HELP!!!

[Capital_Con]

Also the girl i spoke to from the council told me i had to deal with the bailiffs now

[ploddertom]

Are your dates correct in Post 9?

 

PT

[Capital_Con]

Hi yes they are the exact dates that Jacobs sent me on headed paper in December

[ploddertom]

From the date of the levy:

1 - did you come to any arrangement to pay by instalments

a - if so were these kept up to date

b - when was the last one made

2 - how many times since the levy has the Bailiff attended

3 - before last Friday when was the last time he came

 

PT

[Capital_Con]

From the date of the levy:

1 - did you come to any arrangement to pay by instalments

a - if so were these kept up to date

b - when was the last one made

2 - how many times since the levy has the Bailiff attended

3 - before last Friday when was the last time he came

 

PT

 

1. The levy was made on the van while i was away from the property, i returned and found a letter through the door stating that a levy had been placed on the van. I rang the bailiff and told him it was an invalid levy as i used the van for self employment purposes. No arrangements to pay by instalments were made to the bailiff as i had been instructed by somebody off these forums not to. Jacobs are saying that i agreed to pay £40 a month via a phone call to the bailiff (who surprisingly isn't in their employment any more) which is 100% not true, and they have never sent me out anything to verify this.

2. Once, last Friday

3. 20th August 2010 apparently

 

Many thanks for the help, appreciated

[ploddertom]

Regardless of anything and put very plainly the levy whether valid or nor has been abandoned. Tell them to go forth, they won't like it, they will try to seize it again. For insurance purposes are you the only permitted driver, is the vehicle signwritten, do you use it for any Social, Domestic & Leisure purposes?

 

The Council are wrong to tell you to deal with the Bailiff as they are 100% liable for the actions & conduct of their contractor.

 

PT

[Capital_Con]

"tell them to go forth, they won't like it, they will try to seize it again"

 

I don't want them to seize it though? The bailiff told me if he see's the van he will take it, he also said that his procedure after that (if he can't take the van) will be for a warrant of committal?

 

Yes i am the only permitted driver, its not sign written, and the insurance also covers Social, domestic & leisure purposes (can you solely get business insurance??)

[ploddertom]

"tell them to go forth, they won't like it, they will try to seize it again"

 

I don't want them to seize it though? That may be more difficult to prevent unless you can move it elsewhere. The bailiff told me if he see's the van he will take it, he also said that his procedure after that (if he can't take the van) will be for a warrant of committal? - Committal is not his choice, only the Council can do this. If you still owe to the Council I would seriously consider trying to pay it off by online banking, Council website or automated phone, if you decide to do this then pay what you can afford on a regular basis - £10 every Thursday for example - unless of course you can afford to pay it in one lump sum. If paying this way then you should allow for lawful Bailiff fees - these should only be £42-50 max seeing as his levy is no good.

 

Yes i am the only permitted driver, its not sign written, and the insurance also covers Social, domestic & leisure purposes (can you solely get business insurance??) That's fine I was trying to establish if you had anyone else insured as then it would not have been for your sole use and it could have then been removed.

 

You will now need to write to the Bailiffs and advise the levy is classed as being abandoned as the attending Bailiff failed to keep in close contact with the goods he had seized, no Walking Possession Agreement was made nor any arrangements for payment. You must also put them on notice that you have supplied the necessary wherewithall to prove the said vehicle is exempt from seizure as being necessary for your self employment. Any attempt by them to seize or remove the said vehicle will result in a claim against the Bailiff, Bailiff Co & the Council. When finished also send a copy to the Council and ask it placed on your file for reference.

 

PT

[Capital_Con]

Many thanks for your help, much appreciated! I offered to pay the council using the online payment system but thats when i was told i would have to deal with the bailiffs direct? Also how would i go about paying the bailiffs fee's? One last thing if they do seize the vehicle (presumably by clamping it) whats to stop me from cutting the clamp off seeing as its an invalid levy?

 

Again many thanks

[ploddertom]

Many thanks for your help, much appreciated! I offered to pay the council using the online payment system but thats when i was told i would have to deal with the bailiffs direct? Also how would i go about paying the bailiffs fee's? One last thing if they do seize the vehicle (presumably by clamping it) whats to stop me from cutting the clamp off seeing as its an invalid levy?

 

Again many thanks

 

You can apy the Council direct as explained previously - I assume you have the relevant Ref No. If you know how much you have left to pay just add £42-50 to it for lawful fees. The Council will inform the Bailiffs you have paid. To clamp your vehicle he would have to:

1 - seize it again

2 - give you time to pay

3 - then clamp but

a - he will not have a Clamping Order so it will be unlawful

4 - you may remove a clamp providing you do not damage it in any way & then inform him where it may be collected from - be wary doing this as there are quite a few little toerags in your area who may decide to cut the clamp and throw in the river.

 

PT

[Capital_Con]

Yes i got the reference number when i made contact with the council back in December so will make payment through the online system, thank you sooooo much for answering all my questions and putting my mind at ease!

[ploddertom]

Come back if you need more. There is usually someone around most of the time. Don't forget most of us have been there and got more than the T Shirt particularly when we got the Bailiff to release it because they really are a complete set of numpties who rely on fear, intimidation and your own lack of knowledge, they do have a degree in lying and the majority need surgery to straighten their spines as they cannot lie straight in bed.

 

PT

[tomtubby]

It is important to be aware that the local authority are wholly responsible for the LEVY and FEES charged by THEIR AGENTS.

 

For a vehicle to be "exempt" it needs to be "for my use personally in the course of my business or employment". There is case law on this and a copy of the insurance would be required to ensure that you are the ONLY person insured to drive the vehicle.

 

As I have said, the local authority are WHOLLY RESPONSIBLE for this levy and I would strongly suggest that you contact them this morning to say that you wish to make a FORMAL COMPLAINT concerning the levy.

 

PS: There is also the very serious matter of the extra fees that you have now been charged. Ask the council WHAT these fees are for!!!

Edited February 1, 2012 by tomtubby

[wonkeydonkey]

Having just helped a cagger through the painful process of satisfying the requirement to having a vehicle classified as 'exempt', I can assure you it is not a straight forward matter. I would be inclined to follow the advice of TT and unless you can show that you and only you are insured to use the car personally in the course of your business or employment" I would be inclined to go down the route of that Formal Complaint while asking questions to those fees mentioned.

 

WD

[Capital_Con]

Thanks guys, very helpful. I have just come off the phone now to the council and made a formal complaint regarding the levy that i said i will also be putting in writing. I then asked about the fee's that have since been added and what they were for. He told me he didn't know and the debt ha been passes to the bailiffs and i would have to speak with them direct regarding the fee's?? I told him i will start making payments each month to the council direct via their online payment system. I will write up a draught letter when i get in from work tonight and post on here before sending off

 

Many thanks again

[Capital_Con]

on a side note when i asked Jacobs for all charges and payments on any account they had with me last December they only provided details of this account and not the one that has been fully paid off. I have just asked the council how much the previous liability order was for and they told me it was £742.10. I know i paid Jacobs to clear this so how can i get them to release details o the paid off account abd fee's charged?