Jump to content
We are now - The National Consumer Service ×


  • Tweets

    No tweets were found.

  • Posts

    • Write to us at PO Box 82112 London N17 1LG Registered Office Unit 1.01, Hollinwood Business Centre, Albert Street, Failsworth, Oldham, England, OL8 3QL
    • Is this the correct email to send WS to the courts? I was sure there was a thread here with updated emails. [email protected] Thanks again Andy
    • Thanks again Andy. I have used the following. Not 100% sure on it as it's a bit technical for me. But hopefully shines a light on the points I want to enforce of the 'Full and final' settlement.   Exhibit 2: (relevant extracts used).   URL:https://www.bailii.org/uk/cases/UKHL/2001/8.html Cite as: [2001] 1 All ER 961, [2001] ICR 337, [2001] 2 WLR 735, [2002] AC 251, [2002] 1 AC 251, [2001] Emp LR 359, [2001] IRLR 292, [2001] UKHL 8   Bank of Credit and Commerce International SA v. Munawar Ali, Sultana Runi Khan and Others [2001] UKHL 8; [2001] 1 All ER 961; [2001] 2 WLR 735 (1st March, 2001) HOUSE OF LORDS Lord Bingham of Cornhill Lord Browne-Wilkinson Lord Nicholls of Birkenhead Lord Hoffmann Lord Clyde OPINIONS OF THE LORDS OF APPEAL FOR JUDGMENT IN THE CAUSE BANK OF CREDIT AND COMMERCE INTERNATIONAL SA (IN COMPULSORY LIQUIDATION) (APPELLANTS) v. (1) MUNAWAR ALI (2) SULTANA RUNI KHAN AND OTHERS (RESPONDENTS) ON 1 MARCH 2001 [2001] UKHL 8   LORD NICHOLLS OF BIRKENHEAD 22. This appeal raises a question of interpretation of a general release. By a general release I mean an agreement containing widely drawn general words releasing all claims one party may have against the other. The release given by Mr Naeem was of this character. Mr Naeem accepted a payment from BCCI 'in full and final settlement of all or any claims . . . of whatsoever nature that exist or may exist'. LORD HOFFMANN 38. The language of the document is very wide. The impression it conveys is that the draftsman meant business. He has gone to some trouble to avoid leaving anything out. He uses traditional style: pairs of words like "full and final settlement", "all or any claims", "that exist or may exist" and phrases like "whether under statute, common law or in equity" and "of whatsoever nature". Admittedly, he could have gone further. Tudor Grange Holdings Ltd v Citibank NA [1992] Ch 53, 57 contains an even more elaborate release and I have seen American documents in which the release covers an entire page. But most people in this country would regard this as overkill. The modern English tradition, while still erring on the side of caution, is to avoid the grosser excesses of verbiage and trust to the judges to use common sense to get the message. I think that this tendency should be encouraged. So I think that anyone who was simply reading the document without preconceptions would accept that the draftsman was not leaving deliberate gaps. It does not however follow that the language was to be read completely literally. There may be limitations in scope to be inferred from the background, limitations from context which the draftsman may have thought too obvious to mention. But that is a different matter from saying that he did not use enough words. LORD CLYDE The critical words are: "The applicant agrees to accept the terms set out in the documents attached in full and final settlement of all or any claims whether under statute, common law or in equity of whatsoever nature that exist or may exist and, in particular, all or any claims rights or applications of whatsoever nature that the applicant has or may have or has made or could make in or to the industrial tribunal, except the applicant's rights under the respondent's pension scheme."
    • change 4 options to  a. Provide a copy agreement/facility arrangement along with the Terms and conditions at inception, which this claim is based on. b. Provide a copy of the Notice served under 76(1) and 98(1) of the CCA1974 Demand /Recall Notice and Notice of Assignment. c. Provide a breakdown of their excessive charging/fees levied to the account and quantify how the Claimant has reached the amount claimed. d. Evidence how they have complied with sections III & IV of Practice Direction - Pre-action Conduct.   add in: add a new point 2. (old one now being 3)  2. The Claimant has not complied with paragraph 3 of the PAPDC (Pre Action Protocol) Failed to serve a letter of claim pre claim pursuant to PAPDC changes of the 1st October 2017.It is respectfully requested that the court take this into consideration pursuant to 7.1 PAPDC.  
  • Our picks

    • If you are buying a used car – you need to read this survival guide.
      • 1 reply
    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

      Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 
       

      Many thanks 
      • 81 replies
    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
      • 162 replies
    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
        • Thanks
        • Like

Recommended Posts

apologies for spelling and grammer i can't seem to edit the title for starters and I'm tired, oh so tired

 

I'm posting here for some advice not of the norm as i know procedures and what actions people are normally advised to take, I could actually sort out my issues simply by raising a grievance or taking my issues outside of my department but this would mean going head to head with my boss and fighting it out and i know with the issues and evidence i can put forward (people from other departments are also aware to enough of extent that i would be taken seriously) i would have many things sorted but it would leave a large mess behind it with relationships and life is too short to work in a constantly hostile environment

 

I actually like my boss very much as a person and due to being involved in work issues and conflicts in the past i really can't go back to conflict as the person it makes me i do not like or want to return. It's not the fear of conflict that is my issue but the fact i'm actually quite good at it. It's the main reason i took this job as i love the work, it's just the people i work with!

 

I honestly feel like if i raised these through the appropriate channels there would be major changes where i work possibly people leaving (civil service don;t really do dismissals unless you have got a smoking gun or the boss hates yu and you have nothing on them) and although i know i'm not a paragon of virtue i think there is no way these are my perceptions through paranoia or an overwhelming sense of my own importance.

 

To set out in brief so you can see some meat on the bone.(sorry it's a big bone)

 

For info i work in the civil service so rules and practices are different from the private sector, unfortunately you will see some clear stereotypes coming up

 

Boss

 

Works 60% of the hours they should, in late, home early pretty much every day. This is known by their boss of the same ilk but not by higher level bosses. Delegates every piece of work that comes his way, if you want advice on an issue or the wording of an email which may be legally contentious he's gazing around after the first sentence with a simple "yep that's fine on many occasions without reading it"

 

If you need him to get involved in an unresolved issue as our procedure means we should escalate to him first he simply does nothing, i have emails for sending waiting for his ok/input that where if things went wrong would involve legal action potentially against my service. When it's contentious and it involves forcing other managers to deal with issues he simply uses the long grass technique,if another department is not fulfilling their responsibilities and it's stopping me he does nothing.

 

As the job i do is supporting vulnerable people if i had hair left i'd be pulling it out as i'm only ensuring our legal obligations are fulfilled (put those comments around whistles away folks, i know and they are not really that high level as in immediate risk of life and limb)

 

My frustration is i feel like just going ahead and sorting these issues out without involving him, that then leaves me open to breach of procedure internally and would force me to get into why and take him on as once the door is opened outside my office i can only see things escalating.

 

Anyhow, that's my boss, nice fellow that he is I'll probably say this again but i've spoken to him 4 times now twice in formal supervisions raising most of the work balance concerns i'm going to list, nothing has been done at all even through no argument or challenge to what i raised although he did say he's worked out that nobody in our office is working above 55% capacity (don't ask me where he pulled it from as when i produced all our logging sheets mentioned below he didn't even know where they were or what was on them)

 

My Colleagues.:-

Co worker 1 (CW1)

One works from home 1-2 days a week, nobody else knows on what and on many occasions this means after lunch other days she's out the office and gone home from there in addition to the set home days. In some ways it's not my business what she does or if she is allowed to do this, not only do i not need to nor do i want to, couldn't cope trying to work in a house full of kids, what grates me is i know for a fact she isn't working, i do note when she's not in one of the other women (who i will come to last) spends most of the afternoon on the phone to her or texting her ****ing about

 

How do you know these "facts" you ask? well first hearsay "ok lets move on to the next then" every home work item used to be listed as setting up for for x,y,z when this was raised a while ago due to the rest of our team doing the same and setting up for this work in much much less time the home time logging was changed simply to the words "home" bottom line manager was aware and did nothing bar lip service when a great big picture was painted in front of him.

 

All our work is logged only because by pushing the issue and creating the log sheets for reporting purposes to departments myself people now have to list what core work they are doing (i knew i'd need proper evidence in the long run)

 

Much comes in via phone in the office, whoever is in gets what's on the end of the call most of the time this can be 2-30 mins of advice or days of work depending on the issue. She sits nearly at the bottom of all recorded work for everything we do and as at least 50% is out of office so she is never in to deal with the phone either, the phone in my office is an issue of loathing for me, i detest how the people i work with sit and wait for someone else to answer it if it's the main line in as our admin works few hours it;'s often on group pickup. I've seen them get up and walk away when theirs rings expecting someone else to answer (i have learned to wait myself but it does rile me still and it tends to be another worker who is the main culprit)

 

We are set hours for each work piece we get the which users never come close to using apart from with her as when you add the log time up it's 4-5 the allowed maximum when adding the home set-up times she logs against

 

Anyhow that's co-worker one, co worker two

 

senior officer (CW2), returned after absence at the start of the year, nothing on any logs as she hasn't done any of the core work which is the same as before her absence, often off for child related reasons (not complaining this is a good thing for employees and mothers but i'm glad my kids were not ill so often) the only positive is the boss tends to delegate to her at first so it's not all her fault, she is new to management and has picked up this trick very quickly so it then gets bumped to us or should i say us with the exception of CW1. As far as i know works my hours but appears to have a different clock from me as my hours mean i'm there 2 hours after her to complete them, I did once mention in passing very carefully about if she was on reduced hours (doesn't come in at least 1 day a week) and got a very aggressive defensive response.

 

I inherited her major work IT support package which for most of the people i work with would be an all day every day job, i'm expected to do this and the same as the rest and more. Since her return she has logged in twice in 5 months. I have to take all support calls 50% of all our calls and if i'm out they jts take a message for me to ring therm back, everyone is supposed to deal with it

 

Co-worker 3 once had this work as i set it up and was then removed without reason but she made so many cockups and complaints from users i was given it back on top of my work she was left with a big gap in workload which comes into my next workmate rant, the senior is now reviewing the system and policy for users she knows little about and has not even discussed anything with me but chooses to discuss with Co-W1 who knows nothing about it. They also did this on introduction of the system going off to get another qualification 5 days in 4 star hotel to move them closer to being able to work for themselves (many people who do my job are consultants) and then dumping the work on me, Me nothingm why would i need this to run they system they have the accreditation to use

 

I have recently found out that she is now reviewing a major piece of work that took me months and is actually completed which i did on my own again on top of my normal work which concerns 100's of staff and i sorted as it had been ignored for half a decade (shall i not mention it's an annual legal obligation), i've had senior managers more than happy with my outcome ringing me asking why they are involved (they have not even heard of CW1 as work in this high maintenance area isn't something she fancies and has this choice) and this is how i found out about their involvement, i forgot by them it's CW1+2 now out of the office for the rest of the week to review this, again not even told about this.

 

The blatant lack of involvement or discussion isn't something that can be broached with her as a normal discussion she has isolated herself with CW1

 

Nothing is ever discussed with us and if i actually explained what i do many of you would know how bad this is due to the legalities around my job

 

Finally saved for last

Co - worker Worker 3

The days she is off/not in are a joy for all, everything is a drama, there are tears at least once a week with her constant personal problems she brings on herself by affairs and it's on it's off, spends many a day on personal calls NEVER ANSWERS THE BLOODY PHONE for work, if she isn't ringing family it's CW1, can't do anything without asking 100 times "what should i do here"

 

She laughs giggles and shreeks at shouting levels, messes about (describing would identify her easily if for some reason one of them stumbled here) makes stupid noises when CW1 is in while myself and the other co worker not mentioned here are trying to work because she has not got any to do tags along with CW1 (doubling up on work seems only available to the women in our office but please don't take it as sexist, it's just the demographics where i work) spends ages in rooms with CW1 or 2 discussing personal issues after another bout of tears.

 

They have been pulled on this both CW1+3 but as with everything boss in useless, the other co-worker once snapped at her and ended up in trouble for it and this is what worries me as i can see it coming myself.

 

She takes 4 times a long to do anything and is generally bone idle and incompetent

 

This was supposed to be short query, sorry folks i feel like i'm about to get 10 posts saying "thanks for sharing"

 

 

I know this is one side of the story and i'm not really too bothered i'm paid less for the same work (and much more extra work) where i am qualifications set pay and they have more, i could reduce my "responsibilities" to my grade but i like what i do and i like working hard and serving the people i look after (the public)

 

If you take what i wrote at face value i'm sure you would all say formal grievance, i know this, you may say just tell them to sod off, i know this

 

The question here is how do i resolve any of this without using the appropriate and formal route and subsequently kill the daily atmosphere in a small office i have to live in 39 hrs a week.

 

I know many senior people across my area of civil service due to a longish career and old jobs and if i laid this out to any of them they would look at me as if i was a different person than the one the knew as i'm known for not only never being a doormat but not putting up with stuff like this

 

How do i either block out both the indolence and petty crap in the office because this is what most of the above is (over time and totting petty stuff up feels like death by a thousand needles to me) or keep my sanity

 

When i've decided no grievances, no taking it above my department, no simply telling my workmates they can &*&*&*&* how can this be resolved

 

Is the only answer choose one or put up and shut up !

 

I have managed many more people than this myself in the past and can see how bad the place is managed, bottom line the boss is the one responsible for all of the above meaning it would need to be him to take on if it did go formal, I don't want to do this not for any fear of reprisals, not due to lack of know how but because i do hate confrontation these days in work, i'm a candle with no wick and want to stay that way

Edited by I is Perplexed
Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi. Welcome to CAG. Hopefully Emzzii or one of our other regular employment forum goers will pop in and give you some good advise. Be patient, as even though they do check in pretty much daily, it might take a day or two to give specific advice :)

Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

:D

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello! This sounds like it has been going on for a ong time and driving you crazy

 

If you were to condense the above points down to two or three things that are practical and you would like to happen, what would they be? (I can't see suggestions, just a list of issues. Bosses like to be brought answers not problems)

 

I am struggling to see how things will get better if you are not prepared to take action about them. Are you looking for other jobs also?

 

Personally I wouldn't care about the "daily atmosphere" at work as I'm not there to socialise but I am tougher than most.... sounds like most of them are out most of the time though so why worry!

Never assume anyone on the internet is who they say they are. Only rely on advice from insured professionals you have paid for!

Link to post
Share on other sites

TBH it sounds no different from a lot of other places (local gov civil service etc) if someone can get away with not doing their job so be it, unless you are thier manager not your problem, just do your own job and let them get on with it is the best bet.

If I have been of any help, please click on my star and let me know, thank you.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the advice ladies, one of the things i wanted to do was see in black and white how these issues read and to be honest set out as i did yesterday they read as petty and common place. I've put up with this for 3 years now and i honestly feel most people would have lost the plot or their rag before now

 

Just to answer your queries in no particular order

 

1. I am not looking for another job, i love what i do and there isn't much out there in the civil service at the moment other than cutbacks and redundancies, i also like working for the employer. If something did come up with the same pay i was interested in i would seriously consider it.

2. I tell myself over and over it isn't my business, i'm no longer a manager and such but it is my business because when they avoid work someone else picks it up, quite often that is me so my issue is not that they do as they please but that i inherit the work they avoid.

3. Crazy is not the word emmzi :|

 

 

 

 

To condense into three area's for my boss (i have already done this and taken it to him in black and white)

a) expected to undertake all workload as my colleges and run a high maintenance IT system and user support as well

b) I have evidenced to him that any assessment of users we do which is at least 1/2 day for each, I have done more than anyone else and CW1+2 are around 6 for the year (last 12mths) me 26

c) we provide onsite instruction to other departments and users usually lasting 2-4 hrs a package, sometimes these must be written from scratch or are tweaked to each department i did 50% of all packages over a 100 in total, closest co worker to me was in the 40's and CW2+3 mid 20's, when CW 1+2 do this they always book 1/2 day out setting up, many times i get about 10 minutes due to everything else i'm doing.

d) sneaking a 4th in here, dealt with 50% of all calls coming in (can't prove this without phone logs which managers can access but i know this is the case)

 

I did mention the office frivolities and how distracting and annoying they are they are but didn't put too much into this as it would be seen as petty but i can say with my hand on my heart emmzi you could not work in this environment, it's not about me wanting to socialise it's about trying to deliver a workload much in excess of my workmates while putting up with farmyard noises over and over, constant crying and attention seeking, sheer bone idleness and much more.

 

Reading back again and pondering you are right, what do you do when the channels to use you don't want to. i think i'm going to have to simply become a right pain in the rear and start sticking saying no, it's not that i have to much work to complete in my hours, i can do it, the rub is doing double the work of these three people for less pay.

 

I don't want to be hated by my workmates which will be the outcome but this is only what they deserve and i am able to show clearly it is a lack of management.

 

What is driving me insane the most is every day i care a little less about the job i do because of the lack of management in my team, If you can;t beat them join them and all that guff.

 

Oh well i didn't think there would be another answer to this but it was worth asking and setting out in writing

 

thanks

Link to post
Share on other sites

Think of work as a way of earning holiday tokens !! and say no to extra work that others leave, all the time you do it your manager isn't bothered, but he will be if the work isn't done and then he might do something about it

If I have been of any help, please click on my star and let me know, thank you.

Link to post
Share on other sites

It sounds like you have very poor management and lazy co-workers.

 

However this is not your problem. I think you are worrying too much about other people - constantly comparing yourself to others is a guaranteed way to become unhappy. If you don't want to raise a grievance and you don't want to find another job, then simply go to work, do your job and come home. If other people don't do your their job that shouldn't affect you, and as long as you are not staying late every night it doesn't really matter if you are doing the most work (since you would be there all day anyway and the department is probably overstaffed).

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING

EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    • No registered users viewing this page.

  • Have we helped you ...?


×
×
  • Create New...