Van clamped this morning my Marstons

[AJ71]

Hi everyone,

 

I hope I'm posting this in the correct place as I wasn't sure if it should go here or on the Motoring Group forum.

 

I woke up this morning to find my van had been clamped for non payment of a council parking charge.

 

I'm not too worried about the parking charge as I am in dispute with the council and am currently going through their formal complaints procedure - I realise now I should have just paid the fine and tried to claim everything back afterwards - you live and learn!

 

However, I am concerned with how I was forced to make a payment to the bailiffs in order to get my van back.

 

Whilst my van is personally owned its signed up with the company name, logo and contact details and I use it for deliveries.

 

When I explained to the bailiff I use it for my sole use in my business doing deliveries and am unable to carry out any deliveries without it I believed it was covered under Section 89, 1 of The County Courts Act as the vehicle was essential for my business and I needed it this afternoon for my deliveries.

 

The bailiff said the Act doesn't count and he should know as he's been doing this job long enough - Is this correct ?

 

Also, when I asked why hadn't I need notified he said a letter was sent out 10 days ago giving me 7 days to pay or the would take this action - I didn't receive the letter but have no proof and similarly they cant prove it was sent but said the fact their computer says the letter was issued that's good enough for the courts.

 

In order to get my can back so I could do my deliveries I paid the following:

 

Original fine and fees - £93.20

Bailiffs attendance costs - £61.94

Attendance to remove/removal - £175.00

VAT - £49.63

Total - £379.77

plus £1.00 debit card fee

 

Is there any way I can find out if they are allowed to charge these amounts ?

 

Plus, and this just gets better, I've just realised I've paid too much VAT as 20% of £236.94 (£61.94 + £175) is actually £47.39 - is this fraud or a HMRC matter ? (would love to start a VAT investigation!)

 

Is there anything I can do about the over charge ?

 

When I made the payment I explained I paying under duress as I had no alternative and was looking to mitigate my losses, in that they were phoning to a tow truck to remove the vehicle. I have since faxed a copy of this statement to Marstons as the bailiff refused to sign my statement to confirm I had made him aware. (I also wrote this on the receipt just in case)

 

I've tried speaking to Marstons and requested their complaints procedure only to be told there isn't one, you simply fax or email a complaint and they will deal with it when they get round to it - I though anyone working on behalf of a local council had to have a written complaints procedure ?

 

I've also telephoned my local council's corporate compliance complaints team and they have taken details and said they will look into the matter but it's normally something I would have to take up with the bailiffs firm first.

 

Any advice anyone could give me would be appreciated - I don't mind dragging these guys through the courts or causing as much fuss as possible as I'm happy the original fine will be cancelled by the council once they have dealt with my original appeal.

 

Many thanks in advance

Edited June 10, 2013 by AJ71
correction to total

[lelu19uk]

Phone your bank and get a charge back as you paid under duress. Insist they do this as u were forced to make the payment. Someone will be along to advise you what to do next.

 

Lx

[postggj]

Is the vehicle insured for business use

[AJ71]

Yes, it's insured for personal and business use.

[postggj]

You will get more replies from people who specialize in this area but the bailiff has acted unlawfully

 

Did you pay by bank card, if so, do an immediate charge back

 

WHO WAS THE BAILIFF COMPANY, MARSTONS??

[AJ71]

yes, I paid by debit card and yes it was 2 bailiffs from Marstons.

 

What grounds would I give for the charge back - just the duress ? and how I do stop them simply coming back to clamp the van again ?

[postggj]

This is not my area but telephone the council and see what they say on the bailiffs unlawful actions

 

Tell them you are going to do a charge back and request they withdraw the warrant back to the local authority, even though it has been paid

 

That will stop the return of the bailiffs, then phone your bank and say the charge was done under duress unlawfully and the council have been fully informed of your intentions, you request a charge back

 

Tell the council they are responsible for the unlawful actions of the bailiffs

[sgtbush]

the van must be SOLELY used for buisness use for it to be excempt, if ANY personal use is used then it is seizable

 

example a wagon used by a company

a hackney taxi,(a private hire taxi is siezable)

[postggj]

the van must be SOLELY used for buisness use for it to be excempt, if ANY personal use is used then it is seizable

 

example a wagon used by a company

a hackney taxi,(a private hire taxi is siezable)

 

Please supply the statutory legislation or case law to support that statement please

 

I believe it to be important

[Peterbard]

Please supply the statutory legislation or case law to support that statement please

 

I believe it to be important

 

I would be very surprised if there is any,

"Such tools, books, vehicles and other items of equipment as are necessary for use personally in employment, business or vocation"

 

By statute

[postggj]

If there is no legislation, then it is irrelevant and unlawful

 

I AM INTERESTED IN THE COMMENT

 

The van must be SOLELY used for business use for it to be exempt, if ANY personal use is used then it is seizable

 

AS STATED, THAT STATEMENT IS HEARSAY AND IRRELEVANT IN LAW

[Peterbard]

If there is no legislation, then it is irrelevant and unlawful

 

I AM INTERESTED IN THE COMMENT

 

The van must be SOLELY used for business use for it to be exempt, if ANY personal use is used then it is seizable

 

AS STATED, THAT STATEMENT IS HEARSAY AND IRRELEVANT IN LAW

 

It is not irrelevant, it is just wrong.

[postggj]

If it is wrong, please post up the legislation/ confirmation it is in error

 

i am not having a go at you

 

i am after confirmation, one way or another under statutory provision or case law

[Peterbard]

I think the exemptions are listed in the distress for rent rules or there subsequent amendments, but I will find the section for you if you give me a minute.(unless someone else beats me to it).

[postggj]

Exactly what i am after

[AJ71]

Interestingly enough, I've found this on the councils own website talking about bailiffs and what they are allowed to do:

 

 

What goods can the bailiff seize?

They can generally seize any goods except: enough clothing, bedding, furniture and household equipment to meet the basic needs of you and your family. They are also not allowed to take tools, books, vehicles and other equipment needed for your work.

A car will generally be viewed as needed for work only if you couldn't do your job without it and there is no reasonable alternative. Bailiffs are allowed to take cars parked outside but cannot break into a garage

 

So it seems the bailiffs are in breach of the Councils own guidance too !

[postggj]

That is why i never jump to conclusions or make statements in good faith that i have not previously researched:|

[Peterbard]

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1984/28/section/89

 

This is it I think via the distress for rent rules

[postggj]

(a)any of that person’s goods except–

 

(i)such tools, books, vehicles and other items of equipment as are necessary to that person for use personally by him in his employment, business or vocation;

 

It does not even say the vehicle has to even have business insurance,

 

SEEMS ANOTHER URBAN MYTH

[Peterbard]

Of course when the appropriate sections fo the TCE 2007 BIll come into operation these requirements will be contained therein, part 3 schedule 12, I think.

[postggj]

Then please post the legislation up

 

I for one am not up on the understanding of bailiff law, and never claim to know unless i see it in black and white

[Peterbard]

(a)any of that person’s goods except–

 

(i)such tools, books, vehicles and other items of equipment as are necessary to that person for use personally by him in his employment, business or vocation;

 

It does not even say the vehicle has to even have business insurance,

 

SEEMS ANOTHER URBAN MYTH

 

 

Yes there is a lot of it about. i think the key here is that it is necessary for ones business( not solely necessary). You could have a set of tools for instance and occasionally use the screw driver to pick your nose, it would not alter the fact that it was a tool of your trade.

[Peterbard]

Then please post the legislation up

 

I for one am not up on the understanding of bailiff law, and never claim to know unless i see it in black and white

 

The current legislation is as stated, the TCE as I say has not yet been enacted although it is law.

[sgtbush]

the van or car is owned personally by the OP, the buisness that he works for therefore has no financial interest in it.

the OP uses it for personal use as already stated.

it is dicey ground tho, and only a complaint that gets a judicial review would sort out the excemptions from non excemptions.

They usually go on SOLE trader rules eg a self employed plumber with van and tools would be excempt but if the plumber employed someone as well then its not as long as one vehicle remained.

example is a person that does pizza deliverys of a night time would not be excempt as the vehical can be used for personal use

[postggj]

I do not mean to push this sgtbush

 

but who are making these claims?

 

Legislation as proven earlier dictates that a vehicle does not even have to have business insurance

 

So who are making these claims a bailiff can do this and that????

Edited June 10, 2013 by squaddie