What is meant to happen at a work focused interview?

[Nystagmite]

Not for me; but my brother:

He had one yesterday and mum came along with him. He asked his address, telephone number, DOB, etc. He was told (he's in WRAG - appealing) that he has to either do education or find a job. Are you required to do these things? I thought the stuff discussed in WFIs were just recommendations and you don't have to do anything?

 

The woman then admitted she's clueless about Aspergers Syndrome. By this point my brother was twitching. (if I do this, it's generally a sign of sensory overload / I'm starting to get uncomfortable an am about to have a meltdown of some sort)

 

The lady then gave him and mum a lecture and asked him how long he's had Aspergers for? Mum replied and said that he was diagnosed at 14. The lady then made some comment about how he can't stay on benefits for ever. What business is that of hers anyway?

 

Yes, like me, he's considered high functioning; but with some of the issues associated with Autism / Aspergers, getting a job is bloody difficult. And then there's the attitudes from other people...

 

Mum has contacted a local support group to get advice on this.

 

On a side note - I asked mum if brother had been called for an assessment by ATOS and she said no. (I wasn't either - but was put into the support group) How can they just put someone in WRAG by the stuff that's been written on the forms? It would have made more sense to see him and then decide whether it's support group, WRAG or fit for work and not WRAG straight off.

[fightingback99]

Would your brother consider some voluntary work if it came to it? Young fellow with Apergers volunteers behind the counter at a local youth centre and does some sort of music lessons with teenagers based on what he's learned at a college course.

[Nystagmite]

I doubt it.

[estellyn]

My understanding is you can't be made to find a job at all, or take up any activity that is contrary to the descriptors he met - so do you have the report showing how he was scored to get into wrag? This can be used against the provider. remember they have no information on what descriptors were scored on, and tend to be overly pushy with ESA claimants due to the higher incentive payment for an ESA claimant finding work.

 

My husband has aspergers (diagnosed in his 40's), so I totally understand the limitations. My husband's anxiety levels are so bad, now, he couldn't even deal with claiming ESA and having an assessment (due to my claim he doesn't have to, we lose a little money, but rather that than all the stress it would cause). The anxiety having become worse as he's gotten older - he certainly can't work now (though did up to recently) and has gotten to the point that just ordinary things happening at home make his anxiety so bad he can't function. People don't realise how debilitating aspergers can be, and see others with the condition in jobs and managing, but as the psychologist we saw explained, there are two types of people with aspergers, those who have no awareness and just....be how they are, without the social skills and abilities, and everyone around them just have to deal, or they are those like my husband who are very aware of how different they are, and to them the world is a dangerous place, full of people who might as well be wearing masks, having interactions he doesn't understand.

[Nystagmite]

Not sure if mum has the report. Will ask her about it.

 

My understanding was that what's discussed in WFIs (ie, education and training) is just a recommendation. I know you can't be made to look for work.

[estellyn]

Not sure if mum has the report. Will ask her about it.

 

My understanding was that what's discussed in WFIs (ie, education and training) is just a recommendation. I know you can't be made to look for work.

 

No, I believe the preparations for work, once agreed, need to be adhered to or risk sanction - part of the newer tougher changes, made recently. There may be some scope to argue against taking part while in the appeal process, but whether anyone has been successful arguing this, I don't know. This is why it is so important to be able to get the scores for the descriptors, and say to the provider 'this says I can't be expected to do what you're asking'.

[Nystagmite]

Do you have a link to the new changes made recently please?

 

Mum said she's going to make a complain to the job centre about this.

[estellyn]

Do you have a link to the new changes made recently please?

 

Mum said she's going to make a complain to the job centre about this.

 

I'll have a look for a link, but yes, a complaint is a good idea - he shouldn't be told he has to get a job.

[estellyn]

Here's the link:

 

http://www.dwp.gov.uk/adviser/updates/esa-sanction-changes/

[Nystagmite]

Thank you.

 

Just found this (from your link)

Advisers will only ask claimants to take part in work related activities that are reasonable and that take into account their circumstances and capability. This includes health conditions, disability and caring responsibilities.

 

It sounds as though the adviser ignored these things.

[estellyn]

Thank you.

 

Just found this (from your link)

 

 

It sounds as though the adviser ignored these things.

 

They don't have any direct info on the capabilities of the person in front of them. Even if you tell them, unless they are familiar with the limitations of the condition, they may not understand the relevance of a diagnosis, they may also think the person in front of them is exaggerating their limitations. It is important to be very firm with them, have a copy of where points have been scored, and if necessary, write in detail what this means in practical terms as to what can and can't be done. For instance for education it might be 'can't study in a normal classroom environment without a carer/assistance, but can study an online course at home where I feel safe'.

[Nystagmite]

Thank you

 

Spoke to mum just now and they've put him in the support group.

[estellyn]

Thank you

 

Spoke to mum just now and they've put him in the support group.

 

That must be such a relief for your brother (and you and your mum).

[Nystagmite]

Yes it is. She said that (as she found on Monday) that because he was made to attend the interview, she has to then deal with his behaviour after.

 

Is it right that they now have to wait on another letter about his money going up? He was receiving £110 a week on IB and has transitional protection on ESA. He has no other income. My ESA (income based) is around £243 every fortnight.

[estellyn]

Once the decision is made and processed, any back pay should be paid into his account shortly after, and his regular payments will increase. When I went from work group to support group, I don't think I even got a letter about money going up - though they SHOULD be sent out. If he has had a letter about moving to the support group, has he checked his bank account? There could be a back payment made already, or it could appear in the next few days.

[fedupandold]

They don't have any direct info on the capabilities of the person in front of them. Even if you tell them, unless they are familiar with the limitations of the condition, they may not understand the relevance of a diagnosis, they may also think the person in front of them is exaggerating their limitations. It is important to be very firm with them, have a copy of where points have been scored, and if necessary, write in detail what this means in practical terms as to what can and can't be done. For instance for education it might be 'can't study in a normal classroom environment without a carer/assistance, but can study an online course at home where I feel safe'.

 

If you carry on in that way, you will no doubt be heading for a sanction!

 

As many others have said in the past that it is Ok to have principles and demand that they adhere to the strictness of the legislation if you can cope with the aftermath of sanctions and have money set aside to live off whilst you appeal against that sanction.

Surely it is much better (for a quieter life) just to play the 'game' with them and go along with what they suggest?

[estellyn]

If you carry on in that way, you will no doubt be heading for a sanction!

 

As many others have said in the past that it is Ok to have principles and demand that they adhere to the strictness of the legislation if you can cope with the aftermath of sanctions and have money set aside to live off whilst you appeal against that sanction.

Surely it is much better (for a quieter life) just to play the 'game' with them and go along with what they suggest?

 

Unfortunately, when you have an illness or a disability which is not being catered to correctly by the work provider, it is not about 'principles', but about being stuck between a rock and a hard place. Do you choose to risk an appeallable sanction for standing up for yourself, or risk a sanction by not being able to physically or psychologically do the mandated work activity.

 

For ESA claimants, making things very clear in the beginning is the only sensible way forward - we often don't have a choice to 'just go along with it'.

[fedupandold]

Unfortunately, when you have an illness or a disability which is not being catered to correctly by the work provider, it is not about 'principles', but about being stuck between a rock and a hard place. Do you choose to risk an appeallable sanction for standing up for yourself, or risk a sanction by not being able to physically or psychologically do the mandated work activity.

 

For ESA claimants, making things very clear in the beginning is the only sensible way forward - we often don't have a choice to 'just go along with it'.

 

I fully understand your point and can see the difficulties that some people may find themselves with. But, and I am an ESA claimant (Support Group) and if I was in the work group I wouldn't 'rock the boat', I would attempt to do whatever they asked of me and if it caused a problem medically or mentally, I would pop along to my GP and get a sick note. I would then hand it over saying that what I was asked to do has made me ill or caused a deterioration in an already existing condition. Then it would be up to the provider/Jobcentre Plus and the GP to sort out. I wouldn't be refusing, my GP would be telling them that they are harming me. I would just sit back and see what happens telling them to keep me out of it - I've tried but it's the GP that is unhappy. I doubt that they would ask you to do the same or similar thing again - you could in fact tell them that on advice obtained you could sue them for harming you.

 

Mt attitude is never to put yourself in the firing line, you can hand over the bullets, but make sure someone else fires the gun!

Edited June 23, 2013 by fedupandold

[estellyn]

I fully understand your point and can see the difficulties that some people may find themselves with. But, and I am an ESA claimant (Support Group) and if I was in the work group I wouldn't 'rock the boat', I would attempt to do whatever they asked of me and if it caused a problem medically or mentally, I would pop along to my GP and get a sick note. I would then hand it over saying that what I was asked to do has made me ill or caused a deterioration in an already existing condition. Then it would be up to the provider/Jobcentre Plus and the GP to sort out. I wouldn't be refusing, my GP would be telling them that they are harming me. I would just sit back and see what happens telling them to keep me out of it - I've tried but it's the GP that is unhappy.

 

As you'd already have been assessed, any claim that your condition had worsened to not be able to take part in a work programme activity, would trigger an assessment process by the DWP involving an ESA50 and probably an ATOS assessment, which could lead to a failed assessment and possible appeals process.

 

The law states that the work providers are not allowed to mandate you to do anything that you have been assessed as not being able to do - problem is, they are not provided with details of your assessment, so it is currently up to the claimant to ensure the work provider is fully aware of your assessed limitations.

 

Doing an activity that you have been assessed as NOT being able to do risks benefit being suspended and possible interview under caution - especially if during the assessment process you have asserted that you CAN'T do that task.

[Nystagmite]

If you carry on in that way, you will no doubt be heading for a sanction!

 

As many others have said in the past that it is Ok to have principles and demand that they adhere to the strictness of the legislation if you can cope with the aftermath of sanctions and have money set aside to live off whilst you appeal against that sanction.

Surely it is much better (for a quieter life) just to play the 'game' with them and go along with what they suggest?

 

Go along with they say and then risk a meltdown, which his mum has to deal with. Yeah, sound advice there.

 

It's not about principles - it's about them not understanding and telling people to do stuff they can't do.