Civil Enforcement- court case on going - please help

[lynns]

This is my first time on this site so hope I am posting this on the right 'thread'. I received a parking ticket from civil enforcement in June 2012, I hadn't realised it was a maximum stay car park and stayed over the limit.

 

A couple of weeks after this my house was flooded (in those terrible storms which was on the news) and I had to move out of my house as the downstairs was completely ruined. With the stress of all of this, having to find somewhere else to live, dealing with builders, etc., I completely forgot about the fine.

 

I was unable to move back in to my home for 6 months. To cut a long story short civil enforcement are taking court action and I had to complete a form about 7 weeks ago to say whether I accepted blame, partial blame or totally deny it. Given that I am an honest person I accepted partial blame and said that I was willing to pay the original parking fine, but I explained the above circumstances, in the hope that they would understand how I had never got around to paying it. I have just received a letter to say that they do not accept my explanation and are taking court action.

 

I now have to say whether I would like to settle my case via the mediation service rather than going to court. I was going to say yes to this but the advice I have read on this site seems to suggest not to do this.

 

So I am confused and panicking now, as to what to do?

 

Am I being silly in thinking that a Judge would take pity of the circumstances I found myself in last year??? Any further advice would be appreciated. I am a 52 year old woman who has never had to deal with anything like this before.

[ims21]

Hi and welcome to CAG.

 

I have started you a thread of your own and the guys will be along to help as soon as they are available.

[DBC]

This not a fine, it's an invoice. As this has got to this stage, then you will need to put forward a good defence. People will be along soon to provide this for you.In the meantime some points to ponder. The parking company should be asked to provide a breakdown of the actual losses that have suffered. I guess that in reality this would be just a few pounds and not the stupid amount they are claiming. Secondly, they should be asked to provide a valid contract from the land owner that enables them to pursue this case. These are two points are killers where PPC tickets are concerned. It should be noted that CE appear to be not following through these court cases whenever a strong defence is put forward. In other words, they are using the court papers as a scare tactic. I hope that is has been of some reassurance to you.

[citizenB]

DBC, I think the Lady has submitted a partial admittance, would she still be able to put forward a defence ?

[renegadeimp]

She didnt admit it on the claim form. They basically threatened her and told her she had to tell them, then they would decide to take court action.

 

I had to complete a form about 7 weeks ago to say whether I accepted blame, partial blame or totally deny it. Given that I am an honest person I accepted partial blame and said that I was willing to pay the original parking fine, but I explained the above circumstances, in the hope that they would understand how I had never got around to paying it. I have just received a letter to say that they do not accept my explanation and are taking court action.

 

It's their normal scare tactics.

 

However, there seems to be a big gap in the info we've been given. it goes from the quote above, to the OP saying that they have to try mediation. One thing we cant be 100% sure of right now is if real claim forms have been issued and filed correctly, or Civil Enforcement are trying to pull a fast one.

[raydetinu]

Yes, are they actual court papers or just the threat?

[citizenB]

Ah right, thanks Imp.. misunderstood

[steampowered]

Hi,

 

Please could you clarify what stage the court proceedings are at. Am I correct to think you filed a Defence a couple weeks ago and are now completing the Directions Questionnaire?

[lynns]

Hi, Thanks so much for your quick replies. I am sorry that I am a bit vague with the information. I did complete a 'notice of admission' form about 6-7 weeks ago, in which I ticked the box stating I partly admitted the offence. I think this is where I have probably went wrong?

They are now claiming £350 which include court costs and their legal fees, etc.

 

How can I tell if they are proper court papers which I have received. The paperwork I received today says at the top of the page 'notice of proposed allocation to the small claims track' . I also have a 'small claims directions questionnaire to complete'.

 

Any advice on what to do next would be gratefully received. I am going out now (I need a few drinks with all of this carry on lol) but look forward to reading replies later.

Thanks again

[citizenB]

The attached document is a copy of a claim form. Is this what you received. Although from the other documents you have mentioned, I suspect that you have received a claim form - whatever you submitted has been accepted as your defence and you have now received papers for the next step. Somewhere on the Small claims directions form should be a number is it N180 or N181 ?

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]44850[/ATTACH]

[lynns]

Yes the claim form you attached is the same form I received a month or so ago. The directions questionnaire N180 is what I have received this morning.

[ericsbrother]

post the Particulars of claim up and we can see what they are after and offer help as it may be that they have shot themselves in the foot by being greedy. I bet they have overegged the claim because you responded to them so they just piled it on in the hope that you would just pay up rather then fight it.

[peanutsallergy]

Details are important

If the original claim was under £300, the court fee will be incorrect if they have now taken it to £350, as you admitted partial admission, and they may have hung themselves.

[lynns]

Details are important

If the original claim was under £300, the court fee will be incorrect if they have now taken it to £350, as you admitted partial admission, and they may have hung themselves.

 

 

I will post the details from work tomorrow.

Thanks again

[lynns]

Please find attached the documents I received. I hope this can shed some light on my predicament.

 

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]44865[/ATTACH]

Edited July 1, 2013 by citizenB

[lynns]

Hi please find attached forms as requested. Hope they can help unravel this situation!

[steampowered]

Regarding the mediation service - if you would like to use this, then by all means tick the box. In reality, I don't think it matters. I imagine the Claimant is unlikely to want to attend a mediation because getting someone to attend mediations is a business cost. After all you have already made an offer of repayment and this was not accepted.

 

It is likely that that, unless you are prepared to stump up for the full amount, you will need to attend a small claims court hearing with a judge. This will be held in your local county court. Small claims is designed for people without legal training so you should not feel scared or intimidated.

 

If you intend to contest this, I think we will have to do some work to get you a better Defence. You need to understand that court proceedings are not about who is morally in the right. I am sure the judge will sympathise with you but ultimately he has to take the law and apply it in a black-and-white way: either they were legally entitled to increase the fee or they were not. Unfortunately the fact that you had a difficult time with your personal life and forgot about the invoice is not a legally valid basis for denying a debt. A good Defence might look something like the example posted here: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?395511-REceived-Court-Papers-From-A-Private-parking-Speculative-invoice-How-To-Deal-With-It-HERE***.

 

You are allowed to amend your Defence, but only with the consent of the other side or court permission. Therefore, if you want we can help you prepare a new Defence denying the claim in its entirety and you can write to the court asking for permission to substitute this for your original Defence.

[lynns]

Ok thanks, I will have a think about it, but I will have to make my mind up soon as I have to respond in the next week or so.

[ericsbrother]

Ok, they have claimed £265 for breach of contract- this alleged contract is the one that was posted up on the car park that siad you may park there free for up to 3 hours and if staying beyoond that be liable to pay an amount of £xxx. Now, was that amount £265? I bet it wasnt anywhere near that amount.

Go and photograph the sign, make notes of its size, whether it is illuminated, how high off the ground it is and where it is in relation to the entrance to the car park.

I bet it says that the breach of contract means they can claim either costs or a contractual sum, which is it? the answer to that will shape your defence.

Plese let us know soon.

Also solicitors costs are suspect, they have now been allowed in the small claims procedure for a short while so please tell us if you have any correspondence from a solicitor prior to this CC claim. The form doesnt give a solicitor as a service agent so they atre again leaving themselves open to scrutiny at court about this.

[ericsbrother]

They have rejected you partial admission so you can go for an amended defence.

[renegadeimp]

One big problem for these types of companies, there never was a contract between you and the landowner. They certainly wouldnt be able to claim what they are asking for if there was, because they would have to show the contract AND prove that the £265 was their actual loss.

 

I would LOVE to see how they come up with £265 as a calculation of their loss.

[lynns]

Thanks to everyone for their comments. I haven't received a letter from a solicitor (not yet anyway). I will take on suggestions, i.e. looking at the signage at the weekend, etc., but have to admit that I feel tempted to just pay the money to put an end to all of it as I am sick of it hanging over me.

I have a week to respond though, so I am not going to make a rash decision. I am angry that I have offered to pay the £70 fine and they are refusing my offer and in a way I want to go to court and have my say, although it seems that it will probably be to no avail.

 

Thanks again folks.

[renegadeimp]

but have to admit that I feel tempted to just pay the money to put an end to all of it as I am sick of it hanging over me.

Thats exactly what they want you to do and is why they continually harass you.

[ericsbrother]

OK, it is not a fine, a fine is a criminal matter, this is an invoice. Now, when you say they sent you a demand for £70, was that the amount on the sign or another amount they asked for?

It is becoming clear that the demand for £265 is going to bite them back if you challenge it when you get to court and it does look like it is heading that way because they are being greedy and stupid.

[lynns]

It was a parking ticket on my windscreen. Unfortunately I can't find it but I do recall it saying that if the £70 was not paid by a certain time then the amount would increase. This must be where the additional charges come from?I have discovered that the signage in the car park has recently replaced the signace that was up when I got my ticket last June. So there is no point in me taking photos as previously suggested!Because I didn't realise there were parking restrictions in this car park I took no notice of the signage last year.