Need Help with probate.....

[garethtp]

Hi all new to forum so please be gentle......

 

Ok to start i must point out that it is my partner who is experiencing the problem following the death of her mother and then her father some 11 days later.

 

My partner is one of four sisters all surviving their parents, there is a grandchild looked upon as a sister also, the plus one.

 

Upon the death of their father the last parent a grant of letters was applied for by one of the sisters we shall call sister A.

A also organised death certs, the funerals and appointed a solicitor to undertake settling the estate.

 

Some of the sisters almost immediately undertook going throught the upstairs of the house and disposing of some of the items.

After the funeral of their father other items were distributed among them all, all appearing happyish with the items.

 

An agreement from the solicitor was sent to my partner requesting her to sign and return.

This agreement detailed that all debts were to be settled and remaining assets sold, ie the house, and the remaining monies to be shared equally among five sisters.

 

Since then the situation between my partner and sister A has become acrimonious as sister A has sought to exclude her from several things such as spreading of ashes etc..

 

Then she discovered that an energy survey was required to sell the house, but was not asked to contribute.

I then phoned sister A enquiring as to whether there were additional funds that could be used for this purpose,

to which she stated i had accused her of stealing and that she would pay this as she had everything else including the solicitor.

 

I contacted the solicititor, with my partners agreement to act as her representative,

to inform him that the situation between the sisters had become acrimonious

and that all correspondence be made with my partner directly and that agreement not be presumed.

 

I also enquired regarding funds paid to him and discovered that no funds had been paid to him or the solicitor undertaking the conveyancing,

these to be paid at the settlement of the estate.

 

I further informed him that several debts that may have to be settled were debts of third parties,

namely two of the sisters obtained goods from catalogues held in her mothers name and enquired as to these debts.

 

Not half an hour later we recieved several threatening texts from sister A,

which contained material proving that the solicitor had contacted sister A.

 

SO my question is....

Has the solicitor broken the rules of confidentiality as he has a responsibility to all beneficiaries and not one sister ie sister A,

is undertaking this work on behalf of her late father and therfore must respect their confidentiality equally.

 

The agreement is NOT legal as the grandchild is not a beneficiary as her mother is still alive.

The solicitor has done nothing to check the facts.

Therefore the agreement must be rewritten to state the she is not and that all sisters agree to include her after the settlement more as agift as it were.

 

The solicitor is the one who has a duty to keep all beneficiaries informed of all movements of assets etc

and has failed to do so. Also he has been informed that others also are not doing so and has done nothing.

 

When is the time to get help, where and anything else i ain't thought of...............................

 

ALL HELP GREATLY APPRECIATED.....

THNX:|

[cyberhead]

The sad fact here is that they did not need a solicitor at all ,how much is he charging for doing nothing .the four sisters are are entitled to an equal share

(i take it there was no will ) basically the sister who is running the show should be informing the others of what is happening ,your sister is entitled to

ask anything she wants about the estate as the solicitor should be representing all four sisters ,when the estate has been sorted an account of the estate

should be made by sister A ,anything remaining after bills and debts split 4 ways if she managed to obtain the letters of admin herself ,she will know this ..

Seems strange she obtained the letters of admin and then decided to arrange for a solicitor to deal with the estate ,what is he actually doing ?

 

moneys from bank/savings accounts can be split you do not have to wait for the house to be sold. Deal with the estate as it goes obviously keeping

records and perhaps leaving money in sister As account to deal with any expenses

 

As for the energy survey she would be expected to pay it out of funds from the estate ,would hardly ask anyone else ....

 

who is the mother of the grandaughter this all seems rather strange to me ..

[honeybee13]

Hello there.

 

I don't claim to be an expert, but normally if there is no will, estates are dealt with in line with the intestacy rules. You can look those up on the Probate Office website.

 

My best, HB

[garethtp]

Sister A obtained these after seeking the solicitor and obviously on his advice.

When i contacted the solicitor his remit is to settle the estate and drew up the agreement my partner signed.

There are four sisters but one of the sisters siblings moved in with grandparents when she was very young and treated as if a daughter. The sisters are all agreed that she should be entitled to a share, however the agreement should surely reflect this by stating that there are four beneficiaries who all agree to donate a equal share after settlement to create a share for this grandchild as a gift. This is so it meets the legalities of intestacy.

Also if the solicitor is acting in this regard he should have checked the facts and has breached confidentiality.

Am i correct.......

[raydetinu]

Has the solicitor has broken any rules? You may think he has! even if he has what can you do about it! Complain to his superior or the firms principal maybe.

You do not need a solicitor to sort out estate, but if you all agree that the one you have is to do it, then yes you need an agreement between you all of how is to be split and you all must be consulted equally before he makes any decisions about the estate; other than that you must let him get on and do what you are paying him for ( and it will not be cheap ) They will take their fee first before paying out anything!

[steampowered]

I assume there is no will here. Under the rules of intestacy, grandchildren are not entitled to anything where there are surviving children. The estate should be divided equally between the children. The grandchild would only be entitled if he/she is the son/daughter of a fifth child who is deceased.

 

I am not entirely sure, but my understanding is that the solicitor is acting on behalf of the executor - not for individual beneficiaries such as yourself. Accordingly I do not think that the solicitor owes you a duty of confidentiality. However, the solicitor does owe a duty of disclosure to his/her client, the executor.

 

I also do not think information concerning the potential debts of the estate is confidential in the first place; it is information that should be available to anyone with an interest in the estate. You say yourself that the solicitor has a duty to keep the beneficiaries informed about the estate.

 

What exactly are you hoping to achieve here, please? Remember that the solicitor is on an hourly rate - his/her fees will come out of the estate, so think carefully before involving yourself in unnecessary arguments.

[garethtp]

Firstly we have attempted to find out information regarding the estate from sister A who is not playing ball as it were. On enquiring about anything we are accusing her of wrongdoing in her opinion. Sister A has not involved my partner in decisions/arrangements etc merely informed her when/if she chooses after the event.

A deed of letters maybe in her name but what does that give her a legal right of and what responsibilities does she have to fulfill.

We suspect the agreement will not meet the requirements of the state and therefore should be rewritten in the format i have suggested.

We believe that the solicitor has acted improperly regarding the agreement and confidentiality as he is paid by the estate which is the beneficiaries equally not one sole beneficiary so should respect individual confidentialities equally. Due to his failings thus far we suspect that he may not have canvassed correctly for creditors/debtors of the estate, checked that debts are not third parties, that movements of assets etc are communicated to beneficiaries in a timely manner to name but a few.

Our only aim is to make sure the job is done correctly and fairly........and to stop the intimidation and threats we are now getting from sister A for asking reasonable questions.........

[steampowered]

I am not sure how do want the agreement rewritten?

 

Regarding the point you make about third party debts, I do not think you are on solid legal ground here. If the catalogue debts were in your mother's name her estate is absolutely liable for them to the catalogue company and must pay. You seem to think that the estate may be able to recover that debt from two of sisters, but I think this is unlikely. Your mother was entitled to make a gift to your sisters by ordering for them. When we are talking about mothers and daughters, the law presumes that a gift was intended unless there is evidence to the contrary. Unless there is a written agreement from your sisters saying that they will repay the catalogue debt it will be almost impossible to prove that repayment is required or that this is a "third party debt". It does not sound like there is much point in the solicitor pursuing this issue given the rate he will be charging for his time.

 

Why are you concerned about the way in which the solicitor is canvassing for creditors/debtors? What creditors/debtors do you think there might be and what do you want the solicitor to do?

 

Personally I am not sure what you are hoping to achieve sure. I know you are upset with the rude and childish texts from the sister, but from your post I personally am unable to identify anything wrong with how the solicitor is acting.

[garethtp]

As the agreement is at the moment it states that the estate is to be split five ways between the four daughters and grandaughter. This does not meet the requirements in law for intestacy as the mother of the grandaughter is still alive therfore this is not legal. We are not denying the grandaughter a share as we all feel she should have one. The agreement should state that the estate is divided among the four daughters and each wish to gift the grandaughter an equal gift from each of their legacies. We feel that the solicitor SHOULD have checked these facts and has broken confidentiality. He should have posted two adverts so as to cover any potential creditors/debtors to the estate. These ae usually two papers i believe london ones as noone knows for definite what insurances/accounts etc they may have had........just all seems shoddy

[steampowered]

The agreement is not illegal, you can agree whatever you want in a contract ... it is OK to agree that the estate will be split differently to the default intestacy rules.

 

I am not an expert in this kind of thing, but I have not heard about needing to advertise in two newspapers when someone dies. I may be wrong, but I think perhaps you are getting confused with bankruptcy, where the Official Receiver has to advertise the bankruptcy in the London Gazette.

[garethtp]

Am going to take some legal advice as i just get the feeling the clique of sisters are trying to keep my partner from her legacy given their actions thus far...........and im sure intestacy rules have to be adhered to so as to demonstrate the estate does not fall in the remit of death duties etc and is not a default that can be altered. As such it is necessary to advertise in two papers one of which could be the gazette to allow anyone with interedt in the estate the oppurtunity to come forward, this includes the state ie dwp revenue etc. This enables a defence in law to the family if any creditor/debtor makes sny approach after the settlement of the estate.

Please dont forget probate is a process thst is designed to satisfy the state that you do not fall in theremit of death duties and can investigate any case put forward......and ignorance is not a defence....

[honeybee13]

Am going to take some legal advice as i just get the feeling the clique of sisters are trying to keep my partner from her legacy given their actions thus far...........and im sure intestacy rules have to be adhered to so as to demonstrate the estate does not fall in the remit of death duties etc and is not a default that can be altered. As such it is necessary to advertise in two papers one of which could be the gazette to allow anyone with interedt in the estate the oppurtunity to come forward, this includes the state ie dwp revenue etc. This enables a defence in law to the family if any creditor/debtor makes sny approach after the settlement of the estate.

Please dont forget probate is a process thst is designed to satisfy the state that you do not fall in theremit of death duties and can investigate any case put forward......and ignorance is not a defence....

 

Hello again.

 

Sorry if I've misunderstood, I thought probate was a process to go through to declare how much was left in the estate and to pay any inheritance tax due before distributing the estate's assets.

 

And I know that a will can be altered by a Deed of Variation if all the beneficiaries agree. I can't be absolutely sure, but I think it may be possible for an intestate estate too. Of course if you aren't in agreement, you might be able to block the proposed action. This really isn't my field though.

 

HB

[cyberhead]

Hi Again

 

An account of the settlement of the estate will be available when everything is sorted

surely any disputes will be looked at then ,as for the catalogue issue Im afraid that debt

will need to be settled from the estate as was in the mothers name regardless of who

was recieving the goods ...